upcoming Matrix release

[StrangeNightOfStone]

Is Greg Shaw's book accurate in regards to the order of songs performed each night at the Matrix? So many boots have come out where the songs were out of order, and at times shows from the 7th were put on the list for the 10th, and vice verse...
Can anyone list off the top of their head the definative order of songs as performed at the Matrix?

I will be unhappy of this new Matrix release just mixes both performances together.....

I'm very interested to find out when these unheard instrumentals were performed. The 2 instrumentals we have yeat to hear, plus Ray's instrumental version of Summertime makes me wonder- were instrumentals commonplace in early Doors shows? i figured such gave Jim a chance to have a break between songs...

There was some 'in between song chatter', which I hope is retained. Before MEHSY on the 10th, Ray asked Jim 'Well, what have you decided on'? To which Jim responded 'Eyes'. There was also some chatter before one of the performances of 'Moonlight Drive'- i hope they keep all of that intact

[Porsche]

I didn't get any details on the Matrix set. Dave is a moderator at the LL. If he has any deeper involvement, it's unknown to me. He's never had any access to the archives -- only Botnick does. Basically, he was Ray's webmaster, and I think he probably impressed him by telling him about his book project to transcribe every Doors concert recording. I think it was Ray's suggestion to hire him as their archivist (i.e. resident expert) and that's what they did. I don't believe he's ever worked at the The Doors' office or with any Doors recordings and I've never had any conversations with him in all my talks with management over the last five years. He's no longer listed as the archivist on BMA releases so I presume the position doesn't exist anymore. I haven't asked Jampol about what he does/did, but I don't think he had much of a role with The Doors. It was probably a situation where if they wanted to know when The Doors played a certain city/venue or where a certain photo was taken, they'd ask Dave to confirm it or find out. Maybe they still do? Beyond that, I don't know that he ever sourced any recordings or did anything substantial as their "archivist."

[Roughie]

The two unreleased jams are what have me most excited by this release (re-release!).

[hardrockcafe]

Can anyone list off the top of their head the definative order of songs as performed at the Matrix?

March 7, 1967 Tape # 1:

1.) Backdoor Man
2.) My Eyes Have Seen You
3.) Soul Kitchen
4.-5.) Jam* (Note: James Healey stated this "Jam" is two instrumentals totaling approximately 16 minutes, never before released. They don't even circulate on the bootlegs. It has not yet been revealed what these two songs are. Healey did not recognize them.)
6.) Get Out of My Life Woman
7.) When The Music's Over
8.) Close To You
9.) Crawling King Snake
10.) People Are Strange
11.) Alabama Song
12.) The Crystal Ship
13.) Twentieth Century Fox
14.) Moonlight Drive
15.) Summer's Almost Gone
16.) Unhappy Girl

March 7, 1967 Tape # 2

17-18.) Woman is The Devil / Rock Me
19.) Break On Through
20.) Light My Fire
21.) The End

March 10, 1967 Tape #3

22.) My Eyes Have Seen You
23.) Soul Kitchen
24.) I Can't See Your Face In My Mind
25.) People Are Strange
26.) When The Music's Over
27.) Money
28.) Who Do You Love?
29.) Moonlight Drive
30.) Summer's Almost Gone
31.) I'm A King Bee
32.) Gloria
33.) Break On Through
34.) Summertime (instrumental)
35.) Back Door Man
36.) Alabama Song

Fragment: March 9, 1967 (I'm guessing they will include this on the box set as a bonus track)

37.) The End (survives as a fragment, as Peter Abram recorded the March 10 show over the March 9 show. Only a few minutes of The End survives from March 9, but includes some wild poetic imagery.)

[hardrockcafe]

I prefer the 7th. The perfect show for me would to add Gloria and WDYL from the 10th to the 7th.

Of course Jeff is going to milk every release. They don't have much left. Hoffman said he has not worked on this project yet and hasn't talked to Jeff recently about it.

Yikes! How recent is the Hoffman info? Did he tell you directly the mastering hasn't yet occurred?

[StrangeNightOfStone]

Can anyone list off the top of their head the definative order of songs as performed at the Matrix?

March 7, 1967 Tape # 1:

1.) Backdoor Man
2.) My Eyes Have Seen You
3.) Soul Kitchen
4.-5.) Jam* (Note: James Healey stated this "Jam" is two instrumentals totaling approximately 16 minutes, never before released. They don't even circulate on the bootlegs. It has not yet been revealed what these two songs are. Healey did not recognize them.)
6.) Get Out of My Life Woman
7.) When The Music's Over
8.) Close To You
9.) Crawling King Snake
10.) People Are Strange
11.) Alabama Song
12.) The Crystal Ship
13.) Twentieth Century Fox
14.) Moonlight Drive
15.) Summer's Almost Gone
16.) Unhappy Girl

March 7, 1967 Tape # 2

17-18.) Woman is The Devil / Rock Me
19.) Break On Through
20.) Light My Fire
21.) The End

March 10, 1967 Tape #3

22.) My Eyes Have Seen You
23.) Soul Kitchen
24.) I Can't See Your Face In My Mind
25.) People Are Strange
26.) When The Music's Over
27.) Money
28.) Who Do You Love?
29.) Moonlight Drive
30.) Summer's Almost Gone
31.) I'm A King Bee
32.) Gloria
33.) Break On Through
34.) Summertime (instrumental)
35.) Back Door Man
36.) Alabama Song

Fragment: March 9, 1967 (I'm guessing they will include this on the box set as a bonus track)

37.) The End (survives as a fragment, as Peter Abram recorded the March 10 show over the March 9 show. Only a few minutes of The End survives from March 9, but includes some wild poetic imagery.)

Thanks very much!
I can't wait to hear the two mysterious instrumentals. Could they be free form jams? Latin B.S # 2? Music that would eventually turn up on the Doors later albums? Instrumental covers of other hit songs (like Summertime)?

[StrangeNightOfStone]

I wonder if both of these shows are complete....Ending the show on the 10th with 'Alabama Song' seemed anti-climatic and very un-Doorslike- They loved to end most if not all of their shows with a punch..

[hardrockcafe]

Probably Latin B.S. 1 and 2. But a cool find as apparently no other recordings exist. Once of them is probably a modal jam in the tradition of Coltrane or Miles Davis. Might even be based around "Afro Blue" which was covered by John Coltrane in the early 60s. The Doors quote the melody of "Afro Blue" during the instrumental break of the 1969 Aquarius versions of "Universal Mind."

Here's the Coltrane version, recorded in 1963: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r6T4lvYxaA

I wonder if one of the efforts is Push Push?

[StrangeNightOfStone]

Probably Latin B.S. 1 and 2. Once of them is probably a modal jam in the tradition of Coltrane or Miles Davis. Might even be based around "Afro Blue" which was covered by John Coltrane in the early 60s. The Doors quote the melody of "Afro Blue" during the instrumental break of the 1969 Aquarius versions of "Universal Mind."

Here's the Coltrane version, recorded in 1963: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r6T4lvYxaA

I wonder if one of the efforts is Push Push?

A jazz piece would be nice! One would think the mutual love for jazz would bring Ray and John closer, but such was not to be....

[StrangeNightOfStone]

Probably Latin B.S. 1 and 2. But a cool find as apparently no other recordings exist. Once of them is probably a modal jam in the tradition of Coltrane or Miles Davis. Might even be based around "Afro Blue" which was covered by John Coltrane in the early 60s. The Doors quote the melody of "Afro Blue" during the instrumental break of the 1969 Aquarius versions of "Universal Mind."

Here's the Coltrane version, recorded in 1963: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r6T4lvYxaA

I wonder if one of the efforts is Push Push?

Push Push was interesting...the lyrics were dreadful though..

[hardrockcafe]

Thanks very much!
I can't wait to hear the two mysterious instrumentals. Could they be free form jams? Latin B.S # 2? Music that would eventually turn up on the Doors later albums? Instrumental covers of other hit songs (like Summertime)?

Here's how James Healey described the two jams. He listened to them circa April 2009.

By James Healey, April 28, 2009

Peter and the Doors have reached an amicable agreement, and Peter will be sending them the tapes this week.

I listened to the two jams, and the first one is nearly 8 1/2 minutes of an instrumental, very "Doors-ish" jam. I apologize, but I was distracted and didn't time the second jam, but I believe it was as long or possibly slightly longer than the first, and had a jazzier, softer feel a la "Summertime," etc. Sorry that I couldn't be of more help.

Peter wanted to give one final listen to all four tapes before he sent them off, but there wasn't much time to stop and go back to check things. If they do indeed issue the complete Matrix tapes as promised, I think you will find these instrumental jams interesting.

Cheers,
James

[hardrockcafe]

This is from the Stephen Davis book:

From Jim Morrison, by Stephen Davis, p. 104

They had a couple of different sequences they called "Latin Bull***** #1" and "LBS #2" that were instrumental jams based on arrangements by Gil Evans and John Coltrane's "Afro Blue." These could run half a set at the end of the night in front of the usually empty house.

[StrangeNightOfStone]

It wil be a thrill to hear some live Doors tracks that we have never heard before.

[Roughie]

Push Push, sounds like the basic idea for a song, one that was never completed.

[StrangeNightOfStone]

Push Push, sounds like the basic idea for a song, one that was never completed.

I wonder how many other undeveloped songs were tossed about? I think 'Love Hides' was a song in nucleus form..

[Roughie]

Push Push, sounds like the basic idea for a song, one that was never completed.

I wonder how many other undeveloped songs were tossed about? I think 'Love Hides' was a song in nucleus form..

I wonder that too.

We have a number of songs that were definitely more fleshed out but only have the live versions. (there is another thread that discusses this.)

[wha happened]

I prefer the 7th. The perfect show for me would to add Gloria and WDYL from the 10th to the 7th.

Of course Jeff is going to milk every release. They don't have much left. Hoffman said he has not worked on this project yet and hasn't talked to Jeff recently about it.

Yikes! How recent is the Hoffman info? Did he tell you directly the mastering hasn't yet occurred?

um, about 3 days ago

[mystery_train67]

Probably Latin B.S. 1 and 2. But a cool find as apparently no other recordings exist. Once of them is probably a modal jam in the tradition of Coltrane or Miles Davis. Might even be based around "Afro Blue" which was covered by John Coltrane in the early 60s. The Doors quote the melody of "Afro Blue" during the instrumental break of the 1969 Aquarius versions of "Universal Mind."

Here's the Coltrane version, recorded in 1963: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r6T4lvYxaA

I wonder if one of the efforts is Push Push?

Push Push was interesting...the lyrics were dreadful though..

I do wonder about Push Push.... was it an impromptu jam... or did they consider working it into a song? It's listed as a 'Doors Spare' on that photo in the 97 box set. Jim inserted it into WTMO/TSP jam from Pitts 70. So clearly is was on his mind at the same time as TSP was.

Maybe I'm linking things in my mind in the most esoteric way at the moment, but taking the above into account, as well as Rothchilds statement that TSP was a cut and paste piece not initially written as a whole, and remembering that the ORIGINAL intro to TSP found on Perception was actually edited for release, maybe they had other potential segments for TSP, maybe alternate or additional segments. Maybe Push Push was an option that they decided not to explore because the 'demo' version sucks.

[Roughie]

Interesting thought!

[jim4371]

In 18 days, this thread will be just as old as the number of days between the day the Doors recorded their first demo to the day they performed their last concert in New Orleans. Still no Matrix. Your depressing fact of the day

[Roughie]

In 18 days, this thread will be just as old as the number of days between the day the Doors recorded their first demo to the day they performed their last concert in New Orleans. Still no Matrix. Your depressing fact of the day

That is depressing... yet kinda cool!

[hardrockcafe]

I prefer the 7th. The perfect show for me would to add Gloria and WDYL from the 10th to the 7th.

Of course Jeff is going to milk every release. They don't have much left. Hoffman said he has not worked on this project yet and hasn't talked to Jeff recently about it.

Yikes! How recent is the Hoffman info? Did he tell you directly the mastering hasn't yet occurred?

um, about 3 days ago

Thanks, this is depressing. So what Jampol told Porsche about the set being ready to go was incorrect.

[WordMan]

Yikes! How recent is the Hoffman info? Did he tell you directly the mastering hasn't yet occurred?

um, about 3 days ago

Thanks, this is depressing. So what Jampol told Porsche about the set being ready to go was incorrect.

Or, more than likely, Botnick did the work already and they were bullshitting Hoffman and us.

[wha happened]

I do wonder about Push Push.... was it an impromptu jam... or did they consider working it into a song? It's listed as a 'Doors Spare' on that photo in the 97 box set. Jim inserted it into WTMO/TSP jam from Pitts 70. So clearly is was on his mind at the same time as TSP was.

Maybe I'm linking things in my mind in the most esoteric way at the moment, but taking the above into account, as well as Rothchilds statement that TSP was a cut and paste piece not initially written as a whole, and remembering that the ORIGINAL intro to TSP found on Perception was actually edited for release, maybe they had other potential segments for TSP, maybe alternate or additional segments. Maybe Push Push was an option that they decided not to explore because the 'demo' version sucks.

Push Push, at least one version of it, was recorded during a session for Queen Of The Highway..circa Jan 16, 1969.

[mystery_train67]

how do you know this stuff? someone must have these session reels i presume.

any information on how it sounds compared to the SP sessions version? was robby present for the QOTH session, or were they doing the jazzy version sans guitar?

[wha happened]

I don't know how it sounds. They were really working on Queen Of The Highway for sure. They started as early as Nov 15, '68 and then at least one session was mid Jan '69 and again early December '69.

[Roughie]

I don't know how it sounds. They were really working on Queen Of The Highway for sure. They started as early as Nov 15, '68 and then at least one session was mid Jan '69 and again early December '69.

Any chance of getting a higher res version of your avatar pic please?

[djonez]

Hope botnick didnt do the mastering for the matrix reels. No doubt he couldnt resisting twisting some knobs adding some reverb or whatever. After hearing the samples it doesnt need any enhancements or cleaning up.
Maybe the doors will conjure up a novel way to rearrange the order of the songs. Im sorry we didnt purchase the reels from peter ourselves.

[jim4371]

I've been trying not to think about it - if he fucks with anything but a little EQ and the levels, the release will be ruined.

[hardrockcafe]

I do wonder about Push Push.... was it an impromptu jam... or did they consider working it into a song? It's listed as a 'Doors Spare' on that photo in the 97 box set. Jim inserted it into WTMO/TSP jam from Pitts 70. So clearly is was on his mind at the same time as TSP was.

Maybe I'm linking things in my mind in the most esoteric way at the moment, but taking the above into account, as well as Rothchilds statement that TSP was a cut and paste piece not initially written as a whole, and remembering that the ORIGINAL intro to TSP found on Perception was actually edited for release, maybe they had other potential segments for TSP, maybe alternate or additional segments. Maybe Push Push was an option that they decided not to explore because the 'demo' version sucks.

Push Push, at least one version of it, was recorded during a session for Queen Of The Highway..circa Jan 16, 1969.

Is the exact recording date known for the version of Queen of the Highway first published on the 1997 Doors Box Set?

Also, how much of the Soft Parade album was already in the can before the Miami incident? Were any songs on the Soft Parade album recorded after the Miami incident? I'm curious about this as one would think Morrison's relationship with the band in the immediate months after Miami must have been very tense. Did Ray, Robby, and John actually record any music in the studio with Jim between March - June 69? Or were they too pissed at him?