Hey vince, Check out this photo of Ian Astbury

[Joriki]

www.thedoors.com/band/ray/

[jim4371]

There you go, proof he's not a Jimitator.

[vince]

I followed the trail to see a photo of Ian and got the surprise of my life. I know, you will not belive this. That is not Ian - it is ME!!!

I thought I was looking in a mirror. You know when you get a little frightened, there is that funny "Feeling" that sweeps over your body - That is what happened.

That's me. I don't know wherein hell they got the picture but there it is.

I was wistaken for Jim in London and U.S. on occasion as well. And there it is.

Now let me make my position clear. Ihave stated in more than one posting, that Ihave neither seen nor heard the second Doors or Riders in the Storm group with this Ian guy.

I cannot say first hand what he wears and what he looks like. I have had opinions of others and perhaps was hasty to make assumptions based on heresay.

Honestly, Ihave also said that I have nothing against any group playing the music of any other group. If that is what it is like, Fine. No problem. I have also said, play it accurately and do it right. My objection comes to any or all members of the group putting on a performance in slavish imitation of the original. Val Kilmer did not really look like Jim, but in some ways did. But he did an excellent job of singing as Jim did. that is what counts.

Well, for those of you who wanted a curent picture of me - you have it. Except I have more grey hair. And I cut it shorter since that photo was taken.

You know it was 1985 before my golden tresses were shorn. 18 years long. and curly.

Ian, If I made some bad assumptions, I appologise. Be yourself, not Jim. But sing your heart out.

[wha happened]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UK3J5Dj ... he%20storm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm-oRe2w ... he%20storm

[Joriki]

Awesome. Totally awesome!
Ian Astbury can really belt that shit out, can't he? You gotta figure if Morrison was alive, he'd be all old, fat and bald(like his brother and father.) It woudl be some scary shit. He'd look like David Crosby. He'd've come back to the doors with his tail between his legs and he'd be murdering that classic Rock N Roll on the tour that never ended. At least Astbury has still got some balls. More power to him, I say.

[vince]

Well, that is quite a site. It is, for me, a terrible trip back into the past. I am struck with fristration - Why did Jim destroy himself and with his passing, the group.

the scenes of many of the postings bring back some incredible memories of thims on stage and behind the scenes. It is so sad to see the oerformances and the riots even one fast clip of Jim in New Haven.

The music, the performance and the times when Jim was really doing a great job of entertaining.

Guys, what did I do to deserve such torment - I though we were buddies. For those who estimated Ray's age - he is now 67.

[Terry]

http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2753360

Vince,
Is that you in the video by the drum kit? Look real close because it goes by fast. Hope you are havinf a great summer in Korea. If the video doesn't work copy it above and paste it to open.

[Terry]

or is it winter? Well don't work too hard.

[jim4371]

If you watch the video of the Hollywood Bowl (which was in '68, not '67) Vince can be seen nearly the whole time, standing between/behind Robby's amps and John's drum riser.

[vince]

In any photo, movie, or other visual representation of a Doors performance I was stinding to the right of John, viewed from the front of the stage, or just behind the first amp to the right of John's drum riser.

In late 1969 I moved my poaition to the front of the stage to better hear and balance the vocals aainst the rest of the instruments.

Enev in the Stone movie, I took my original position. Funny that Stone gave me this place and did not put his version of the Road Manager where I used to be.

I assume he could not conceive of a Road manager that was delegated tasks dealing only with the stage presentation.

As for Billy Idol, Stone dredged him, and other figures, up for whatever reason to make cameo appearances in the movie. He even had a seriously handicapped Vietnam Vet in a wheel chair make an appearance.

Nothing like a seat on center stage to enjoy the show.

[windchime]

I followed the trail to see a photo of Ian and got the surprise of my life. I know, you will not belive this. That is not Ian - it is ME!!!

I thought I was looking in a mirror. You know when you get a little frightened, there is that funny "Feeling" that sweeps over your body - That is what happened.

That's me. I don't know wherein hell they got the picture but there it is.

I was wistaken for Jim in London and U.S. on occasion as well. And there it is.

Now let me make my position clear. Ihave stated in more than one posting, that Ihave neither seen nor heard the second Doors or Riders in the Storm group with this Ian guy.

I cannot say first hand what he wears and what he looks like. I have had opinions of others and perhaps was hasty to make assumptions based on heresay.

Honestly, Ihave also said that I have nothing against any group playing the music of any other group. If that is what it is like, Fine. No problem. I have also said, play it accurately and do it right. My objection comes to any or all members of the group putting on a performance in slavish imitation of the original. Val Kilmer did not really look like Jim, but in some ways did. But he did an excellent job of singing as Jim did. that is what counts.

Well, for those of you who wanted a curent picture of me - you have it. Except I have more grey hair. And I cut it shorter since that photo was taken.

You know it was 1985 before my golden tresses were shorn. 18 years long. and curly.

Ian, If I made some bad assumptions, I appologise. Be yourself, not Jim. But sing your heart out.

Hey Vince,

I used to be a big fan of The Cure and here is another pic of Ian (same man, the one posted above is just a more recent photo). I only ask as you stated it was you in the photo above?? I am confused as you stated that you do not have any contact with the boys and have not in years. I am just confused? Here is the other pic, let me know.

Thanks Vince

http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/imageDetai ... 520astbury

[windchime]

I followed the trail to see a photo of Ian and got the surprise of my life. I know, you will not belive this. That is not Ian - it is ME!!!

I thought I was looking in a mirror. You know when you get a little frightened, there is that funny "Feeling" that sweeps over your body - That is what happened.

That's me. I don't know wherein hell they got the picture but there it is.

I was wistaken for Jim in London and U.S. on occasion as well. And there it is.

Now let me make my position clear. Ihave stated in more than one posting, that Ihave neither seen nor heard the second Doors or Riders in the Storm group with this Ian guy.

I cannot say first hand what he wears and what he looks like. I have had opinions of others and perhaps was hasty to make assumptions based on heresay.

Honestly, Ihave also said that I have nothing against any group playing the music of any other group. If that is what it is like, Fine. No problem. I have also said, play it accurately and do it right. My objection comes to any or all members of the group putting on a performance in slavish imitation of the original. Val Kilmer did not really look like Jim, but in some ways did. But he did an excellent job of singing as Jim did. that is what counts.

Well, for those of you who wanted a curent picture of me - you have it. Except I have more grey hair. And I cut it shorter since that photo was taken.

You know it was 1985 before my golden tresses were shorn. 18 years long. and curly.

Ian, If I made some bad assumptions, I appologise. Be yourself, not Jim. But sing your heart out.

Hey Vince,

I used to be a big fan of The Cure and here is another pic of Ian (same man, the one posted above is just a more recent photo). I only ask as you stated it was you in the photo above?? I am confused as you stated that you do not have any contact with the boys and have not in years. I am just confused? Here is the other pic, let me know.

Thanks Vince

http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/imageDetai ... 520astbury

Isn't this you???

http://www.thefreedomman.com/story7part%20three.htm

[vince]

Well, I thought you would see through it but I was too convincing.

The photos of Ian - that one particular photo in the one specific pose looks pretty much as I do now.

I have stated on more than one occasion that I have not been with the guys since 2000 when the movie was made.

I am not really sure what to say about Ian. Some people say he is an imitation of Jim, other say he never dresses like Jim, there is no attempt at imitation. Who is right?

I think that the first consideration is that he is able to provide the same dynamics in the vocals that Jim did. The Melbourn review was not very encouraging.

If he cannot provide the vocals, then no amount of clothing will dress up the failure to provide the drive and charisma that Jim brought to the stage. Jim was NOT clothing, or stage dancing, voice or audience dialogue. He was a magic combination of all of these and a way of putting strange thoughts to sometimes strange music.

I ask those who wonder why I like the first albums so much better than the remainder of the output. Listen to the titles, to the music, to the words... Some have posted descriptions of Jims writing. These descriptions can be applied to the music of the first two albums. It was the "Strangeness" of the songs on those albums that attracted people.

After that the music began to follow the usual commercial line, songs about romance, girls and other rather mundane things. I am not saying that the music was not lovely and thoughful, appealing. Quite the contrary. But it was NOT acid rock as founded by the Jefferson Airplane and Doors. The last two albums were so far away from the first two that you could almost say that they were done by two entirely different groups. Even Jim's voice - as a result of abuse - had changed. People are always talking about the LA Woman album. You rarely hear of the Morrison Hotel work. Doesn't that say something about the popularity of what was on it. In time, the records of almost any popular group are going to go platinum. It is how soon after release that counts, not whether or not it gets there.

I have stated and continue to do so, that the Doors could continue as the Doors only as long as they wrote and played music that made them famous. The Amsterdam demonstrated that they were popular with or without Morrison - as long as they played Doors Music.

By replacing Jim with a Singer of similar talent, they were going to continue - as long as they played Doors Music.

But when they changed - They were popular because of their history, the continuing reputation, the ability to play Very Well. But will Ray and Robby, with any kind of support players and singers, fill Madison Square Garden, Hollywood Bowl or the Forum? I think not. Did the Other Voices album go Platinum?

Take away all the controversy of Ian's dress code. Can he sing - From the clips I heard, I would say he is very good. Can he (NOT replace, imitate, duplicate) take over from Jim and provide all the excitement and quality of singing. I think so. That is really dependant on how he acts on stage.

Does he have the off stage X appeal? I don't know anything about him. I cannot say. I only hope that Ray and Robbie do not have another destructive personality on their hands. Outlandich, sensational, exciting, all of these and more, but not destructive - There is a difference.

So in the end that photo is NOT really me in the flesh. It is a real close resemblance. So much so that I was really surprised. I thought I was just playing a little joke and you took it a bit too seriously. I suppose i could resemble what Jim might look like today. Hopefully not so fat though and no face swollen with alcohol.

Once again I suppose I disseminate a great deal, rambling. There is so much to say, to feel and to remember. Would it not be so nice for Ray, John and Robby to get back together with Ian or whomever, and write and play the Real Doors Music. The kind that made you wonder where you are and how you got there.

[windchime]

Well, I thought you would see through it but I was too convincing.

The photos of Ian - that one particular photo in the one specific pose looks pretty much as I do now.

I have stated on more than one occasion that I have not been with the guys since 2000 when the movie was made.

I am not really sure what to say about Ian. Some people say he is an imitation of Jim, other say he never dresses like Jim, there is no attempt at imitation. Who is right?

I think that the first consideration is that he is able to provide the same dynamics in the vocals that Jim did. The Melbourn review was not very encouraging.

If he cannot provide the vocals, then no amount of clothing will dress up the failure to provide the drive and charisma that Jim brought to the stage. Jim was NOT clothing, or stage dancing, voice or audience dialogue. He was a magic combination of all of these and a way of putting strange thoughts to sometimes strange music.

I ask those who wonder why I like the first albums so much better than the remainder of the output. Listen to the titles, to the music, to the words... Some have posted descriptions of Jims writing. These descriptions can be applied to the music of the first two albums. It was the "Strangeness" of the songs on those albums that attracted people.

After that the music began to follow the usual commercial line, songs about romance, girls and other rather mundane things. I am not saying that the music was not lovely and thoughful, appealing. Quite the contrary. But it was NOT acid rock as founded by the Jefferson Airplane and Doors. The last two albums were so far away from the first two that you could almost say that they were done by two entirely different groups. Even Jim's voice - as a result of abuse - had changed. People are always talking about the LA Woman album. You rarely hear of the Morrison Hotel work. Doesn't that say something about the popularity of what was on it. In time, the records of almost any popular group are going to go platinum. It is how soon after release that counts, not whether or not it gets there.

I have stated and continue to do so, that the Doors could continue as the Doors only as long as they wrote and played music that made them famous. The Amsterdam demonstrated that they were popular with or without Morrison - as long as they played Doors Music.

By replacing Jim with a Singer of similar talent, they were going to continue - as long as they played Doors Music.

But when they changed - They were popular because of their history, the continuing reputation, the ability to play Very Well. But will Ray and Robby, with any kind of support players and singers, fill Madison Square Garden, Hollywood Bowl or the Forum? I think not. Did the Other Voices album go Platinum?

Take away all the controversy of Ian's dress code. Can he sing - From the clips I heard, I would say he is very good. Can he (NOT replace, imitate, duplicate) take over from Jim and provide all the excitement and quality of singing. I think so. That is really dependant on how he acts on stage.

Does he have the off stage X appeal? I don't know anything about him. I cannot say. I only hope that Ray and Robbie do not have another destructive personality on their hands. Outlandich, sensational, exciting, all of these and more, but not destructive - There is a difference.

So in the end that photo is NOT really me in the flesh. It is a real close resemblance. So much so that I was really surprised. I thought I was just playing a little joke and you took it a bit too seriously. I suppose i could resemble what Jim might look like today. Hopefully not so fat though and no face swollen with alcohol.

Once again I suppose I disseminate a great deal, rambling. There is so much to say, to feel and to remember. Would it not be so nice for Ray, John and Robby to get back together with Ian or whomever, and write and play the Real Doors Music. The kind that made you wonder where you are and how you got there.

I just wanted to know if you were serious in saying that was you?? Clearly to me, it would not be. Also, I am not a fan of Ian's or this new group (I listened to The Cult back in the 80's), so what they do is really of no consequence to me. I am a fan of the original Door's music, not the band they have formed in an attempt to either replace it, or recapture some of the magic of the past.

As for Ian trying to be Jim (dress like him, etc.), it is fultile to try. There was only ONE Jim Morrison and no one will ever replace the magic he did capture with The Doors. In spite of any and all of his problems, antics, and self-destructive behavior, he was a truly talented and intelligent man. As humans, we are all flawed and we all have problems but this does not take away all that Morrsion did offer to the world in his short life.

I do hope for you that someday you have the opportunity to reunite with the other members if that is your wish. I do think it wrong to dwell on Jim's alcoholism and the like as it is a disease and he was a troubled soul as many are. He has been gone a very long time now and all of the speculation about his behavior is irrelevent and only Jim really understood why he did the things he did. Anyway, thanks for the reply and I did not take it (you saying that was you in the photo) very seriously, so it's just fine.

Thanks Vince~

[windchime]

Vince,

I forgot to mention your comment about not seeing the band members since 2000 when the movie was made. I just thought that was an odd statement as the movie was released complete in 1991, not 2000.

Thanks~

[vince]

You know, chimes, what you have said is true. Jim has been dead for a long time. The new band - or any band - cannot suplicate what the original was like. There is only a hollow memory.

I ti true that the people on this site are interested in the original band and the music they played. That was the real thing, though I did not agreed with all of it or the changes that brought it about.

I think that the questions asked here are the result of curiosity as a result of all the bad press, the rumors and public records that gave Jim an outrageous reputation. People have asked what he, other members of the group and the activities we participated in were really like and I hope that I have answered fully and honestly.

You speak such bitter truth when you tell of Jims Alcohol addiction. I have been touched severely by this disease in people close to me and who worked with me. I can tell you first hand about the trauma this brings. Many people do have this affliction and all are in trouble because ofit. But it was a part of Jim, his personal conduct and the effect upon the group. On occasion it is spoken of in that light.

There is much talk of the new group. I am not sure why. I have seen initative bands - some good and some bad. I have no direct knowledge of this one and doubt I will have the opportunity, In any case, your are so right when suggesting that it is the original, not the replacement, that really counts here

We cannot bring that back - not ever. We have to be satisfied with listening to the reporductions of sound and sight that were, somehow captured, by good luck or good management and through these, capture the mystique, the excitement, the wonder that was the Doors.

They have closed forever, for this reason the name should not be used again.

As for getting back with the band - It would be nice. I would be happy to know that Ray, John and Robby are together and playing and once again friends that they once were. I am a little old for the kind of work it took to do that job. Assuming the duties of a Road Manager would not be too much, But moving 2-1/2 tons of equipment with only 2 or 3 guys to help is a bit more stress than I can handle now.

It was good while it lasted. It is over now and there are only memories, sad, frustrating and even exciting. I moved on 34 years ago. It is only a story now. It is the same song, just a different place and dance step.

Thanks for your thoughts.