Pamela Courson

We're lucky to have former Doors road manager Vince Treanor here to answer fan questions and share some of his memories. Ask Vince about anything related to the equipment The Doors used, stage set-ups, specific concerts, the band after Jim's death, and working on the Oliver Stone movie.

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Hamlet
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Post by Hamlet »

windchime wrote: Hello Hamlet,

Why do you find it embarrasing or highly offensive that I speak the truth about myself?? I did so because assumptions were being made that I was unaware of abuse (drugs and otherwise) as well as comments about my youth in comparison to Vince.
- Because it doesn´t make you an expert on Morrison. At all.

And just because you´ve been slapped around, doesn´t make you an expert on abusive relationships.

A junkie ins´t suddenly a ph.d in the inner psychological workings of drug-addicts.

To the contrary!

- Such a naivety reminds me of ancient Greece, when soldiers wanted to be strong they ate bear, or fast and elusive they ate wolf.

Vince´s take on Morrison rings true.
We`s just joy-ridin'
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universalmind69
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Post by universalmind69 »

nephron wrote:
none of the members of The Doors showed one ounce of support for Jim and did not attend any of the court proceedings.
windchime,

I hate to pile it on, but there seems to be footage of ALL the Doors at the trial on youtube.com. I don't know if it was just an arraignment, or just show, but they're there.
exactly.....they were all there..
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Post by jim4371 »

windchime wrote: Umm, to clear one thing up, none of the members of The Doors showed one ounce of support for Jim and did not attend any of the court proceedings.
Umm, where in the hell do you get your info?
That's probably the least informed assertion I've seen on this board.
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Post by nephron »

windchime

I don't think you were out of line at all.


Hey, let's all lay off a bit. What would it look like to anyone stumbling across this forum to see everyone arguing over what we think happened in some guy's lifetime when we weren't there. Let's just tap Vince's experience and let it be that.
"People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion."--Einstein on the death of a friend.
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Post by windchime »

Hamlet wrote:
windchime wrote: Hello Hamlet,

Why do you find it embarrasing or highly offensive that I speak the truth about myself?? I did so because assumptions were being made that I was unaware of abuse (drugs and otherwise) as well as comments about my youth in comparison to Vince.
- Because it doesn´t make you an expert on Morrison. At all.

And just because you´ve been slapped around, doesn´t make you an expert on abusive relationships.

A junkie ins´t suddenly a ph.d in the inner psychological workings of drug-addicts.

To the contrary!

- Such a naivety reminds me of ancient Greece, when soldiers wanted to be strong they ate bear, or fast and elusive they ate wolf.

Vince´s take on Morrison rings true.
I never said it did.

good day!
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Post by windchime »

nephron wrote:windchime

I don't think you were out of line at all.


Hey, let's all lay off a bit. What would it look like to anyone stumbling across this forum to see everyone arguing over what we think happened in some guy's lifetime when we weren't there. Let's just tap Vince's experience and let it be that.

Thank you, I did not mean to stir up such emotions. KInd of strange to me that people would get so heated over this. Never said I was an expert on anything. Thanks again.

Peace~
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Post by windchime »

nephron wrote:
none of the members of The Doors showed one ounce of support for Jim and did not attend any of the court proceedings.
windchime,

I hate to pile it on, but there seems to be footage of ALL the Doors at the trial on youtube.com. I don't know if it was just an arraignment, or just show, but they're there.

Hello,

I do stand totally corrected, thanks for telling me to look on Youtube.com, hadn't thought of that. Anyway, thanks again.

Have a great day~

Here is the one I found
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OGtQVhtkrpg
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Post by Hamlet »

windchime wrote:
Hamlet wrote:
windchime wrote: Hello Hamlet,

Why do you find it embarrasing or highly offensive that I speak the truth about myself?? I did so because assumptions were being made that I was unaware of abuse (drugs and otherwise) as well as comments about my youth in comparison to Vince.
- Because it doesn´t make you an expert on Morrison. At all.

And just because you´ve been slapped around, doesn´t make you an expert on abusive relationships.

A junkie ins´t suddenly a ph.d in the inner psychological workings of drug-addicts.

To the contrary!

- Such a naivety reminds me of ancient Greece, when soldiers wanted to be strong they ate bear, or fast and elusive they ate wolf.

Vince´s take on Morrison rings true.
I never said it did.

good day!
I really think Manzarek is one of the greatest storyteller, ever!

Give him a theme and he can talk and elaborate on it for hours on end.

-it is evident in his book,
-in his acceptance speak when The Doors were admitted to rock n´roll hall of fame and
-in the audio commentary from The Doors Collection, in which he actually talks for 90% of the time and Botnick, Krieger and Densmore gets the rest.

He is the one, who has developed, elaborated and sold the myth of Morrison to the public. And you can actually hear Densmore reacting to all this nonsense in the audio commentary.

The Dionysos, the winegod Bacchus, the maenads, who need to cater to the every wish of Dionysos.

I have never bought it for one second!

Those, who have, also think that Morrison was the Romeo to Pam´s Juliet.
"Once their eyes combined, their psyches did a caduceus up the staff of Mercury and their sould sprouted wings. They were mated. Olympian. Cosmic", is a quote from Manzarek´s book.

Associate that with the saga of Jim Morrison and what Vince talks about here!- She was no good for him. Only the most naive person would come to that conclusion.

Morrison was the artist. He was the genius. He needed protection, but he didn´t get it.
We`s just joy-ridin'
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Post by windchime »

Hamlet wrote:
windchime wrote:
Hamlet wrote: - Because it doesn´t make you an expert on Morrison. At all.

And just because you´ve been slapped around, doesn´t make you an expert on abusive relationships.

A junkie ins´t suddenly a ph.d in the inner psychological workings of drug-addicts.

To the contrary!

- Such a naivety reminds me of ancient Greece, when soldiers wanted to be strong they ate bear, or fast and elusive they ate wolf.

Vince´s take on Morrison rings true.
I never said it did.

good day!
I really think Manzarek is one of the greatest storyteller, ever!

Give him a theme and he can talk and elaborate on it for hours on end.

-it is evident in his book,
-in his acceptance speak when The Doors were admitted to rock n´roll hall of fame and
-in the audio commentary from The Doors Collection, in which he actually talks for 90% of the time and Botnick, Krieger and Densmore gets the rest.

He is the one, who has developed, elaborated and sold the myth of Morrison to the public. And you can actually hear Densmore reacting to all this nonsense in the audio commentary.

The Dionysos, the winegod Bacchus, the maenads, who need to cater to the every wish of Dionysos.

I have never bought it for one second!

Those, who have, also think that Morrison was the Romeo to Pam´s Juliet.
"Once their eyes combined, their psyches did a caduceus up the staff of Mercury and their sould sprouted wings. They were mated. Olympian. Cosmic", is a quote from Manzarek´s book.

Associate that with the saga of Jim Morrison and what Vince talks about here!- She was no good for him. Only the most naive person would come to that conclusion.

Morrison was the artist. He was the genius. He needed protection, but he didn´t get it.


I don't know why you are rambling off to me??? Lord man, if you think Manzarek is one of the greatest story tellers of all time, I don't know what you say really, lol?? I read his book and found it to be self-indulgent and in need of a LOT of editing, but this is simply MY opinion. As for a good book, John Densmore's "Riders on the Storm" in my opinion was very well written and heartfelt.

As for the "myth", Ray has use dit to sell more tickets and keep that money machine rolling (even Vince lamented to this if I am not mistaken). As for the rest of your post, well I don't know what to say as it really has nothing to due with the subject at hand. I never claimed to be an expert on The Doors or anything else.

As for Pam and Jim, I think perhaps you need to watch the interviews in the special features part of the film (perhaps you do not have this version as it is a special edition). There are interviews with several people one of which is with Robby Krieger. Now this man was around Jim constantly and said quote (in regard to Pam and Jim): "Jim loved her, she was Jim's golden girl." He went on to say quote: "I believe that Pam was the love of Jim's life." Now this is someone that saw Jim, jammed with Jim, toured with Jim, they were like family. I think someone that close to Jim would have known the inner-workings a lot more than you or I would. He was a bandmate and most likely a brother type to Jim.

Having said that, Pam had a lot of problems and no one is disputing that. Jim also had problems and that cannot be disputed. They both needed help and did not get it. As for who Vince talks about, I am not the only one that has asked him about Pam (a thread was made before I joined). Furthermore, she was a HUGE part of Jim's life so it only makes sence that people (not only me) would have asked questions about them. Jim may have been a genius, may have needed help, but he was also a human in in that, flawed. Anyway, not really sure what your post to me was about as I simple stated I never claimed to be an expert on anything, but neither are you.

Good day!
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Post by Hamlet »

windchime wrote: Vince, I know how you feel about Pam, but what you think about them is only part of the story. Only they know what kept them together and that is MY opinion.

Thanks~
i think you are highly naive.
We`s just joy-ridin'
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Post by windchime »

Hamlet wrote:
windchime wrote: Vince, I know how you feel about Pam, but what you think about them is only part of the story. Only they know what kept them together and that is MY opinion.

Thanks~
i think you are highly naive.
You may think whatever you wish about me. You don't know anymore about them them the you do which makes you rather naive/ Furthermore, why do yo keep addressing me?? If you don't like the facts, ignore them.
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Post by Hamlet »

well, you bring nonsense up on this messageboard, including that of your personal life.
lol
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Post by windchime »

Hamlet wrote:well, you bring nonsense up on this messageboard, including that of your personal life.
lol
Umm, you can call me naive (NOT), but you are obsessive. Vince can handle himself and did, so get over it!!! Looks like you might be one of those "hangers on or groupies" that we have all spoken of yikes!!!Leaving thread.

Buh Bye~
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Post by Hamlet »

I am the groupie? lol

Whoever started such a pathetic thread about Morrison´s lovelife?
We`s just joy-ridin'
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Groupies

Post by vince »

Hamlet:

I think the pot called the Kettle black.

Groupies are obsessed. They read every article - true or not - weave a fantasy about the subject, become an authority without knowing factual history, idolize and fantasize.

The admirer does not eat, sleep, breathe and live the idol's life, does not wish to "Be just like him".

There can be curiosity, admiration, respect and discussion. But there it ends.

There is a fine line on the one side the admirer and on the other the fanatic who just does not know when to stop.
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Hamlet
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Post by Hamlet »

- you must be referring to yourself.
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Post by nephron »

WTF? :shock:

Hamlet, you know better than that. Unless there's some irony I'm missing here.
"People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion."--Einstein on the death of a friend.
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Post by Hamlet »

I am merely being as witty as windchime. :shock:
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Post by windchime »

Hamlet wrote:I am the groupie? lol

Whoever started such a pathetic thread about Morrison´s lovelife?

Umm, it was on his family as well as his lovelife before The Doors (Mary Werbelow whom you most liekly do not even know who the hell she is).
:roll:
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Re: Groupies

Post by windchime »

vince wrote:Hamlet:

I think the pot called the Kettle black.

Groupies are obsessed. They read every article - true or not - weave a fantasy about the subject, become an authority without knowing factual history, idolize and fantasize.

The admirer does not eat, sleep, breathe and live the idol's life, does not wish to "Be just like him".

There can be curiosity, admiration, respect and discussion. But there it ends.

There is a fine line on the one side the admorer and on the other the fanatic who just does not know when to stop.
Yes, like you. :wink: All these years later and you actually spend time here? Seems rather strange to me, and obsessive. The way you speak of Jim seems as though you loved him or something?? Were you jealous of Pam as you were of Siddons?? Hmm, don't even answer that.

Yikes! :shock:
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Post by nephron »

tssk, tssk, tssk.....
"People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion."--Einstein on the death of a friend.
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Post by windchime »

nephron wrote:tssk, tssk, tssk.....
Fair enough, maybe unfair. However when you start making assumptions about someone you do not know and attacking their charachter, you must expect some backlash, yes?? Perhaps I was a bit out of line though.

~muah~ :wink:
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Post by nephron »

You're not out of line, windchime. You're just sensitive. So am I. So are many.
"People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion."--Einstein on the death of a friend.
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universalmind69
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Post by universalmind69 »

windchime wrote:
Hamlet wrote:I am the groupie? lol

Whoever started such a pathetic thread about Morrison´s lovelife?

Umm, it was on his family as well as his lovelife before The Doors (Mary Werbelow whom you most liekly do not even know who the hell she is).
:roll:
yeah, only insiders know about Mary Werbelow....information about her is strictly known to "Pam-heads" :lol:
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Post by windchime »

universalmind69 wrote:
windchime wrote:
Hamlet wrote:I am the groupie? lol

Whoever started such a pathetic thread about Morrison´s lovelife?

Umm, it was on his family as well as his lovelife before The Doors (Mary Werbelow whom you most liekly do not even know who the hell she is).
:roll:
yeah, only insiders know about Mary Werbelow....information about her is strictly known to "Pam-heads" :lol:

NOPE. Mary gave one interview and it was not to any of those that wrote books (would not even speak to Oliver Stone) and I bet the "Pam-heads" as you call them don't even know about her. Jim rarely spoke of her and Mary gave only one interview and it was to a reporter from MY hometown of St. Pete, Florida where Jim once lived(he lived in nearby Clearwater which is the same county). I have never even heard of her until this article. Now if you want to read it, I would be more than happy to post it. Mary was Jim's first love.
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Post by nephron »

Was Jim capable of love? Love? Think about that word.

What about Tandy Martin? I heard she gave a better hummer than Mary.

(windchime, you know, as usual, I'm just messin' with you)
"People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion."--Einstein on the death of a friend.
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Post by windchime »

nephron wrote:Was Jim capable of love? Love? Think about that word.

What about Tandy Martin? I heard she gave a better hummer than Mary.

(windchime, you know, as usual, I'm just messin' with you)
About Jim, not sure. LOL to the latter part. :P

Print or read this article from my hometown, it is a really great story and interview with Mary Werbelow. Let me know what you think, this is the only interview she ever did or ever will. Pretty good, pretty neat! I have partied on the beach in the article so many times, nice beach!

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/09/25/Doors ... he_e.shtml
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Post by nephron »

Yes. I've seen that one. Good.

NICO? Something comes to mind....oh yes. According to a plethora of information, NICO was really good at that....'oral'...golden copulation thing...perhaps there IS something more to it than a good blowjob. :shock:
"People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion."--Einstein on the death of a friend.
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Post by windchime »

nephron wrote:Yes. I've seen that one. Good.

NICO? Something comes to mind....oh yes. According to a plethora of information, NICO was really good at that....'oral'...golden copulation thing...perhaps there IS something more to it than a good blowjob. :shock:

Yes I did hear that she was quite good at umm, giving quite the hummer. He just screwed her, like so many, bu she is one of his more notable knotches on his leather belt. :wink:
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Post by blindtiger »

Hi to all, im new here and ive been reading a little this thread because a think its interesting.
I have a few questions hope you can help me.
I know Pam was an heroin addict,
my question is why Jim spent 5 years with Pam, and finally he went to Paris with her, all the Paris pictures show them so in love,( i litt le messed up too lol), and all the poems and song inspired on her, don't you guys think maybe Jim was in love with her?Wasn't Jim smart enough to know that and wanted to be with her anyway?
He could have had all the women in the world but he choose Pam, why?
Well thanks in advance.

Oh, i forgot:
Why the others Doors members Manzarek said Pam and Jim were soul mates and he loved her so much?
Its all about the mith and marketing?
Last edited by blindtiger on Thu May 08, 2008 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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