Morrison´s talents.

[Hamlet]

Vince, do you have any idea as to why Morrison was such a great songwriter?

I know the other 3 members were great musicians and helped out with the arrangements of the songs.

But some of Jim Morrison´s melodies are so beautiful:-

The End
The Crystal Ship
People are Strange

Yet, he wasn´t trained at any instrument whatsoever, but in his early twenties he starts to come up with these melodies.

Out of the clear blue sky.

I´ve always found that mindblowing!

[vince]

It is not difficult for you or anyone to come up with a melodie. It is getting it on paper before it Joins the Lost Chord.

I and many other people, often have "Tunes" running through my head. Putting wirds to them or putting them to words is a bit mroe diffidult.

It is true that the group, as a whole, expanded and expounded on the simple tunes that Jim had in his mind for the sond. Robby did the same thing with Light My Fire.

I think that people who enjoy listening to Classic music, and who do so frequently, will be more tuneful than those who do not. Simply because they are exposed to the structure and phrasing of great music. It is easier for a tune to come of that. In cannot telly ou how much exposure Jim had to the Classics or any music appreciation classes in school or in his home life. But maybe it was just a wonderful natural talent.

Moonlight Drive, The End, and several others of the Early music period are, as you suggested, really fine pieces of music born of a creative mind.

Did you know that George Gershwin could not read music. Look at what he left us - and mostly played in the black keys of the standard keyboard.

Interesting

[Hamlet]

hi, Vince.

Thanks for your time.

I just wonder why many skilled and trained songwriters are unable to come up with the songs that Morrison did, if it is that easy to write those songs.

And indeed why the remaining three were unable to write songs within the same structures and themes as did Morrison, after he died!

I find the two post-Morrison albums so revealing, as to who was the real talent in The Doors.

And Gershwin started to play the piano at the age of 12, so he was a trained pianist, before writing those wonderful songs.

McCartney, Hendrix and, my all time favourite musician Erroll Garner, were also not able to read music.- But what are notes other than representations of frequencies?

So if you can trust your ears, and actually understand what you are hearing, you are better off than having to rely on notes.

I bet you, Morrison was heavily musically inclined.

[Snakeskin]

hi, Vince.

Thanks for your time.

I just wonder why many skilled and trained songwriters are unable to come up with the songs that Morrison did, if it is that easy to write those songs.

And indeed why the remaining three were unable to write songs within the same structures and themes as did Morrison, after he died!

I find the two post-Morrison albums so revealing, as to who was the real talent in The Doors.

And Gershwin started to play the piano at the age of 12, so he was a trained pianist, before writing those wonderful songs.

McCartney, Hendrix and, my all time favourite musician Erroll Garner, were also not able to read music.- But what are notes other than representations of frequencies?

So if you can trust your ears, and actually understand what you are hearing, you are better off than having to rely on notes.

I bet you, Morrison was heavily musically inclined.

No, Jim was not musically inclined. Jim tried piano, but,
didn't have the discipline. As far as writing good songs.
Yes, you are right. The Doors couldn't come up with
any gooood Doors's song after he died. I think it was
the collaborating that was done between the four of them. If think it goes the same with the Beatles. John
and Paul were great song writers together. When they
recorded apart, they are not as good. Though they were
somewhat good

[Hamlet]

You can easily be musically inclined without being able to play an instrument.

Morrison could have given up the piano out of many reasons.

Obviously Morrison was musically inclined!

Otherwise you are not able to write songs like Moonlight Drive, which song and others he actually presented for Manzarek.

Somehow Morrison had a concert going on in his head, and he just took notes. He said so in an interview.

But it is fairly easy to find out whether it is easy to write songs.

Find a person that isn´t musically inclined and ask for a song.

- Should work like a charm!

[vince]

I can see were are getting into some severe controversy over talent and ability.

I will say again. Many people run around whistling "Tunes" that they have buzzing around in their head. But they cannot put that tune down on paper because either they do not know how to put the notes into standard form so others can play it OR by the time they get to a point where they can get itinto formal notation, they forgot - or it was just a lark and they don't care of it joins the Lost Chord.

Now Jim could not write music down. It was up to the guys who had the formal training and ability to do such to arrange the music into a likeable tune scored for the 4 standard instruments they used.

As for what came out after Jim died - It had nothing to do with talent. It had much to do with Ray'sinsistance on playing Chicago Blues style of music. And I can agree with you that it had little appreal. The record sales say the same thing and so did performance attendance.

My feelings, I hope you can agree, is that the Early music, aside from what Robby write, was born in high school. After Jim got into the Acid trips, his well dried up. LA Woman and Morrison Hotel are examples of his later work under the influence of Ray, his failing voice and an increasing depression as a result ofmany things he was going through in those days.

The Early music that Jim wrote is reflective of his life and emotions from his youth through High School. There is much symbology and story telling in his works. The more you know of his early life the more you can see the images he speaks of.

AS far as Jim being really "Musical,Not really. But asa writer of literature he was quite good and with the raw tune and help from Ray, the makeDoors Music.

[cutis]

[quote="vince"]

My feelings, I hope you can agree, is that the Early music, aside from what Robby write, was born in high school. After Jim got into the Acid trips, his well dried up. LA Woman and Morrison Hotel are examples of his later work under the influence of Ray, his failing voice and an increasing depression as a result ofmany things he was going through in those days.
quote]

Vince, I respect your feelings. But since you do have a bias towards the Doors earlier material, specifically their first three albums, don't you think you might be overly critical of their latter three albums?

In particular, LA Woman and Morrison Hotel. I agree that the music on those two albums definitely contrasts from their earlier work, specifically the first two albums.

But then rock music also changed within a very short time span. Bands such as Led Zeppelin and Free further developed and later came to define "classic hard rock" from the '70's period. The Doors don't fit (in my view) into this "classic hard rock" category because I never considered the Doors to be a "hard rock" band. They were more a fusion of "jazz/rock" and at least on their first two albums had their own unique sound in the rock music medium and that, in no small part, had to do with their musical arrangement of organ, drums and guitar and no bass player.

But back to Morrison's "well drying up." Roadhouse Blues and Morrison Hotel are definitely influenced by Ray in the sense that those albums are more blues oriented than the Doors earlier efforts. But Roadhouse Blues is a kick ass song! It's got a great beat and moves from start to finish.

At least two of the songs on that album are taken from earlier recorded efforts, including Indian Summer, Waiting for the Sun (during Morrison's "fertile" period). But let's take a look at Peace Frog. A great, dance/rock song that we can thank Robbie for coming up with the infectious groove and Morrison's lyrics which were plucked from his black book. Blue Sunday is a beautiful ode to a love of a girl (in this case, Pam). The lyrics are simple but moving. Land Ho is a pirate/shanty song and the lyrics stimulate the imagination thanks to Morrison's vivid imagery. Maggie Magill is blues once again but the blues don't age! Blues are blues! And Maggie sounds as good now as it did back when it was recorded in during the waining days of 1969! You Make Me Real is a short, cloud burster and packs a punch which is why The Doors also performed this track live. And we can't forget Queen of the Highway. One of the great musical pieces in the Doors canon. Superlative Morrisonian lyrics makes this a great Doors song! The "well" hadn't completely dried up for Morrison. If you're not a fan of this song, I don't see how you can be a fan of Morrison.

When we get to LA Woman, Morrison's "well" still had water in it. Two of the BEST songs on that lp were penned by Mr. Lizard King. LA Woman and Riders on the Storm. Quelle finale for a band that made rock music history!

I am somewhat critical in that Crawling King Snake and Cars Hissing Down by my window are not Doors material worthy of the legendary Morrison songwriter we all know and love. But Hyacinth House, Texas Radio (harkening back to '68) more than make up for it.

LA Woman is a far cry from the Doors debut album. I grant you that. But Jim nor the band should have even attempted to compete with their groundbreaking first album. By '71, rock music ushered in heavier bands with heavier and funkier beats and The Doors were not at the "cutting edge" like they were back in '67 and '68. It's not their fault. I think Morrison might not have been as creatively productive in the '69-70 years as he was back in his earlier days but he still WAS a MAJOR creative force for the band and the "Well" didn't completely dry up until the very end, with the completion of LAW. Just my two cents, Vince. En garde! )

[slimedog]

I agree with Cutis, I think the weakest albums were Waiting for the Sun and Soft Parade. I think the turn to blues on Morrison Hotel and La Woman created two of their best albums. Blues will always have more meat to it than pop.

From what I read the Doors were playing lots of blues tunes from when they had to play five sets a night before their record contract and it seems they all had a big appreciation of the style, look at Robbie's bottleneck playing. I think of the Doors as more of a blues/jazz influenced band with some rock/psychedelic there just because of the time they recorded. Their cover songs were almost always blues or old rock'n'roll.

If they had continued recording I'm pretty sure it would've continued blues based and I believe Morrison talked of himself doing an album of blues covers.

[vince]

Curtis & Slime - What can I say. Actually the best would be There is no dispputing taste. If there was not a difference of opinion wars would not be fought and think of all the fun that would eliminate.

You are right about the early days. thanks to Ray's constant pressure the early Club Model Doors did a lot of blues music from other writers. It was Ray's push that turned Jim to "Comprehend" the substance of blues and to move in that direction.

Again I say with firm belief that Jim was not able to write things like crystal ship, The end, And Music's over - among others as we know from the first two albums. There are what made them famous. People I knew, in New England, Were asking just what in hell this guy was talking about and the fontasy of it all was what brought the appeal. Not to mention the orchestrated music.

Speaking of which, Ray used a piano bass because he could play the bass line as he wanted. He did not have to curry favor with, or be demanding to a live bassist. It was not that they did not want a player rather it was Ray's choice.

I will agree that on the latter albums there is some fine material. I do not condem it all. Compare the ppieces you have mentions to My Wild Love...

In any case, you must take my comments on my preferences with some understanding of my background. I did not like Rock music at all and was trained in and always listened to classics in the form of orchestral, concertos or organ music (With preference for the French Symphonic school of composition.)

I did come to like specific pieces ny a very few groups or individuals. I did not like the total output of any single band - as you can see.

Yes, the music did change. Paul pushed them into orchestral backups. Things were bound to change after that experience.

All in all, I would grant that each person listening to the creations of any group will have their likes and dislikes. You guys are no different. So we agree that the Guys turned out some nice material, sounded good and were the center of attraction. Jim, had he lived, might have gone on writing and who knows what might have come out of it.

Any of you know about Steve Irwin - Now there is another tragedy but not in the same manner as Jim. Still, the world has lost a Very Influential Man

Thanks for the interesting debate.

[Hamlet]

I agree with Vince.

The first 3 albums are outstanding. They are the pedigree of The Doors.

The last 2 albums are more or less great blues. But, blues.

The first trio of albums are like entering a surreal world with highly original music and words.

However, I do not agree that Morrison was just another man with melodies in his head. And if Morrison hadn´t met Manzarek someone else would and together they would have created music a la Doors.

And I don´t see, why no one is creating music like Morrison these days, if in fact it is as simple as just penning your melodies.

Because these days you have taperecorders, sequencers and computers with soundcards, to sing into.

[DalloLama]

Nice of you to mention Steve Irwin, Vince.

I am a big fan of his, he did amazing work w/ animals, conservation. He was full of passion and enthusiasm for wildlife and brought great, entertaining, educational and hilarious documentaries into the living rooms of millions of people around the world. He was the genuine article, no pretence, just a good 'bloke' as we say down here.

Cheers Vince.

[nephron]

I was listening to the spoken album, American Prayer, ran across 'Bird of Prey', and thought of this thread. Simple. Beautiful. All Jim. And it literally exposes his talent for what it is. Seems like it was just a minute effort, yet better than anything I could come up with walking along humming. Check it out. It's great.

[vince]

People are not writing like Jim because they are not Jim. Remember that for get the melodies - many of the words - the thoughts, in his songs come from within. His experiences, thoughts and things he saw or heard and made comment on.

The music - Ihave tunes in my head all the time. I don't have Ray to write them out and I don't have time to do it myself.

Jim had tunes in his head and he put those mystical words to that music. Ray, John and Robby put the polish on the gold.

Jony Mitchell wrote like Jim, so did Jim Crochie and John Denver and others. What separated them was how they said it, rather than what they said. Jim and Jni sand about their life and experiences. Other wrote about the world around them and what they observed.

Altogether it was a wonderful time for music for and of the people, the common man.

[Hamlet]

Jony Mitchell wrote like Jim, so did Jim Crochie and John Denver and others. What separated them was how they said it, rather than what they said. Jim and Jni sand about their life and experiences. Other wrote about the world around them and what they observed.

Altogether it was a wonderful time for music for and of the people, the common man.

I really don´t think these artists write anything remotely connected to Morrison´s songs.

And you still don´t see my point:

Morrison had no formal musical training. Yet, he was able to write songs of breathtaking quality. Out of the clear, blue sky. In his twenties.

Please direct me to another artist like this.

It shouldn´t be too difficult, should it?

[vince]

Jim wrote thelyrics to many of the most popular songs before he was twenty.

The comparison between Morrison and others was quite basic and valid. Morrison wron\te many of his lyrics based on HIS personal experiences and feelings as a result of observation of what other people did to and for each other.

So did the others I mentioned. The style may have been different but the concept was the same. Songs about his life and observations of others.

He did have some musical experience. He began to learn piano and, evidently, was a pretty good singer. At least according to his brother.

What is so unusual about a person with no formal musical training making tunes in his head (Remember he was a pretty good singer in his teens, and singing them for Ray, John and Robby to develop into a well arranged song. Songs which became the foundation for the Doors popularity.

I have said more than once, quite often youhear people who are busy or walking humming little "tunes to themselves. Many of these nameless tunes are the creations of the Hummer. The difference is, they don't get set to words and the Hummer doean't launch a rock career. Wrong place, wrong time.

What Jim did, in and of itself was not unusual. What Jim and three others did with it is sensational. The only reason you are touting Jim as being some sort of boy wonder and other people is that he met Ray and with the help fo Ray and the skills of John and Robbie something came of it. How many others write songs and lyricsand are never heard of because they did not meet a "Ray, John and Robby" at just the right time and place and with the mood of the general population of youth.

We all know of what Jim did and how it all came to be. We appreciate that product and the talent that went into it. But that product, the tunes and lyrics of Jims Jr. and Sr high school years did not last. When the well went dry he, with the hard push from Ray, moved into the blues style. His Idol, Presley, never really did this. He was more of a "Crooner". But Jim likes his style and his daring to buck the establishment with a somewhat unorthodox style of presentation.
Jim likewise had his style as well. Often as not it caused either trouble or a poor performance.

Let's face it, Jim was neither a Wagner nor a Mozart. But like them, he wrote from within and the results still fascinate us today.

As for the age in which his material that launched the Doors to success, work out the times line in reverse. He died at 27 in 1971. The Doors began performing in 1965. He was 21 at that time. His materials was already written when he met Ray. If you are looking to proclaim his talent, you must put the developmental stage in his early teens.

There are tens of thousands of kids out there with the same talent as Jim. What is the difference? He was discovered and they will never be.

If your point is that Jim was some kind of musical genius - No. There were, are and will be others like him who will never get the chance to let the world hear what they have to say. In the entertainment industry, Many are called and few are chosen. I saw that personally during my tenure with the Doors. The lucky ones are not always the most deserving. They just happened tobe in the right place at the right time to be Seen and Heard. Change the place date and time - it would have been someone else who got the Golden Ring - or in this case, the gold album.

I did not say, nor even suggest that other artists wrote anything remotely connected to Jim's songs. Let's correct that, Songs which the Doors made famous. What I said was thay they had the same source for material, their life and observations of the world around them and that each told about it in a different way.

In that perspective, Jim is quite well connected to many other song writers.

[Hamlet]

Based on what you say, Vince, we are now able to conclude that indeed Wagner and Mozart were only lucky.

Maybe that is all there is to these composers?

Sheer luck!

I rate Morrisons songs a lot higher than those of classical composers, whose world is rooted in a feudalistic system, where they have to honour a higher force, be it king, country or mythology.

And also based on what you say, we must conclude that Michael Jacksons song "I´m Bad" or Marty Wildes "I am a teenager in love" is also connected to Morrison!

So did the others I mentioned. The style may have been different but the concept was the same. Songs about his life and observations of others.

I did not say, nor even suggest that other artists wrote anything remotely connected to Jim's songs. Let's correct that, Songs which the Doors made famous. What I said was thay they had the same source for material, their life and observations of the world around them and that each told about it in a different way.

In that perspective, Jim is quite well connected to many other song writers.

- Not even the surviving Doors were able to follow up on and breath life into Morrisons themes.

Morrison writes from within like no one else!

[nephron]

The Early music that Jim wrote is reflective of his life and emotions from his youth through High School. There is much symbology and story telling in his works. The more you know of his early life the more you can see the images he speaks of.

My understanding is that Jim didn't add the music until the rooftop? Wasn't all the notebook stuff just poetry, until he developed 'the concerts in his head'?

[vince]

That is correct Nephron. He came to Ray with ideas for songs with occasional tunes. The 3 musicians then put the music into a sort of orchestral form and yook it into the studio.

Referring toanother commentator:

As far as comparing employed and subsidized compores like Mozart and Wagner to a guy like jim, who got lucky - right place - UCLA; Right time 1964/65, it is both illogicaland irrelevant.

But that illogical commentary makes me wonder which king, or fuedal system supported Shoenstein and E.E. Cummins.

As far as Morrison was concerned. The public subsidized his later works, which I consider somewhat inferior to the early material. He wrote music for the last 3 albums because of contractual obligations which put him in the same pot with Mozart doesn't it.

But you forgot that Many of the works of Mozart were written for the fun of it.

I also note that the music of Mozart, and other of his genre, has lasted a lot longer than Morrisons. I hesitate to think of the number of Gold Albums various orchestras have gleaned recording the "Fuedal music" of 18th through 20th century composers.

I say again, there are tens of thousands af very talented performers, writers and orchestrators of Rock music. Very few of them will achieve their goal or dream. It will be lucky ones, like Morrison and the Guys, who get recognized.

AS far as the current rock bands, if there are any left, the content of their shows is designed more for the eye than ear. They are Magicians who keep your eyes on the spectacle so you won't notice the lack of real talent.

This thing seems to be an unending and meaningless discussion. I don't know if it is entertaining to other members ofthe Forum or not. But the distortions and misconceptions are getting a bit like Windchime. Fire your last shot without fear of rebuttal.

[Hamlet]

I just corner your absurdity when you refer to luck as a drivning force behind a succesful artist.

I don´t for one second think luck had, or has, anything to do with being a success.

Hard work and talent have!

And how incredible lucky artists were in the 60´s.- It´s almost mind-boggling.

Beatles, Stones, Deep Purple, Led Zep, Hendrix, Pink Floyd and The Doors.

- Just luck, eh!

Maybe all the luck ran out back then, since we haven´t had artists like this, ever since.

And the themes Morrison writes within, and from, are a million times more relevant than all works put together by classical composers. - Which is basically “easy listening.” or crazy mythological nonsense, like
"Der Ring des Nibelungen".

You, Vince, were not lucky, when you landed the job with The Doors. You were talented at what you do. And you put a lot of hard work into it.

Who compares to Morrison back then?

You say there are tens of thousands?

Really?

So who would you put forward?

Based on your high-powered analytic skills, you might wanna suggest Engelbert Humperdinck?

[jim4371]

Luck manifests itself as opportunity.
Some (most) of the highly talented folks there are/were you've never heard of and never will.

[Hamlet]

Luck manifests itself as opportunity.
Some (most) of the highly talented folks there are/were you've never heard of and never will.

- Or maybe you aren´t talented enough to be the judge of peoples talent.

[jim4371]

Relevant how?

[vince]

Let's see how much "Luck" had to do with my affair with the Doors. I properly refer to it is right time right place.

I was an organ builder in 1967 and had an intense dislike for most of the Rock" music on then, AM radio. I listened to it only because the Summer help we had were kids and, some of them being "Musicians" wanted to listen.

Had I not gone to Baltimore in October I would not have helped Bill pack the equipment.

Had I not gone to New Haven in December, I would not have taken the Baltimore knowledge to pack the equipment while Bill went to the Police station and stood outside in bare feet and freezing cold because he was not 21 and could not do anything in the legal case developing against Jim.

Had I not come upon the police beating Jim, I would not have made the phone call to Bill telling him what we saw.

Had I not made that call, Bill would not have offered me the job.

If that is not a serioes of co-incidences, I will never know one.

Prior to San Francisco, I had never worked with a prefessional band, never done a stage set-up, especially by myself, and never had to deal with the logistics onair travel with 1500 pounds of equipment.

In other words, It was only that I packed equipment without making a mistake that impressed Bill Siddons enough to suggest I relace him.

The rest was all OJT.

That I am quite intelligent -or used tobe before I became senile - learned fast and quickly found out how to get help without paying cash for it, made that job livable for me.

Do not, for one minute tell me or anyone else, that my skills got me the job with the Doors. Right time, right place and being agressive enough to push into the inner circle. That, and only that, it what got me that job.

I have said this before and will say it again, I was so frightened of failure the I could think of little else on that flight from Boston to San Francisco.

As far as talen goes, there are many gorups contemporary of the Doors that have done well or better. I liked the Doors because of the Early music. It was played in a different style than most bands used. The lyrics were obscure, abstract and created rather interesting images.

So did Edgar Allen Poe.

Infatuation with Morrison creats blind spots. This world is filled with talented people, a very few of whom I have heard, who will never be heard outside their local area. Why.

Because they were not at the right place at the right time and they didn't have anyone to run to a Jac Holzman and get them connected.

In the entertainment world, - I say this again - it is not how good you are but who you know that makes the difference.

Pure luck. Many are called - few are chosen.

I suggest once again, and for the last time. This whole issure had become Reducto Ad Absurbum.

To knock down recognized compsoers like Wagnerand suggest that the works of Tolkein, Poe or Robert Frost are silly just to make Morrison look like the world's greatest songwriter is really stretching common sense. In fact it is become beyond the pale of reality.

Talk to me when the Boston Pops starts playing Doors music as regular fare.

When you recognize the difference between real, enduring, profound gretness and transient popularity perhaps logical discussions can obtain. Otherwise I waste my time.

[Hamlet]

I compare Morrison to classical music, and the themes embodied herein.

I think they are horrible. And Morrison comes out a clear winner!

I think your analytical skills are bad, Vince!

Let's see how much "Luck" had to do with my affair with the Doors. I properly refer to it is right time right place.

I was an organ builder in 1967 and had an intense dislike for most of the Rock" music on then, AM radio. I listened to it only because the Summer help we had were kids and, some of them being "Musicians" wanted to listen.

Had I not gone to Baltimore in October I would not have helped Bill pack the equipment.

Had I not gone to New Haven in December, I would not have taken the Baltimore knowledge to pack the equipment while Bill went to the Police station and stood outside in bare feet and freezing cold because he was not 21 and could not do anything in the legal case developing against Jim.

Had I not come upon the police beating Jim, I would not have made the phone call to Bill telling him what we saw.

Had I not made that call, Bill would not have offered me the job.

Had you not this or had you not that. But you did!- That´s not luck.
That´s display of energy/determination/work. You made the call to Siddons.

So you disliked rockmusic, you say!

Is that luck, too?

[nephron]

And the themes Morrison writes within, and from, are a million times more relevant than all works put together by classical composers. - Which is basically “easy listening.” or crazy mythological nonsense, like
"Der Ring des Nibelungen".

Are you shitting me?
Relevant to you, maybe, but in their time (and now to most), they were profoundly meaningful. Not to mention the talent differential here. Mozart was writing music when he was about 7 y/o. Beyond that, he was writing stanzas that were extremely complex. Morrison couldn't even read music, let alone write it. Sure, I think Morrison was a talented son of a biotch. No doubt about it. But your comparison is like Ann Rule vs. Hemingway. .....or perhaps Morrison vs. Poe...

[Hamlet]

- well, be my guest and explain to me:

how the theme of Die Zauberflöte compares to Morrison´s Strange Days.

I am not saying that Morrison is a greater musician. He isn´t.

I am telling you, he understands and portrays the human psyche, a million times more relevant than a masonic opera from 1791.

Papageno:

The birdcatcher am I,
always merry and bright.
As a birdcatcher I'm known
to young and old throughout the land.

If I could spread a net for girls
I'd catch dozens for myself.
I'd cage them up along with me,
and all girls would belong to me.

If all girls belonged to me
I'd barter them for sugar
and give that sugar straight away
to her that pleased me most.

If she then kissed me tenderly and
would be my wife, and I her man
she'd sleep at my side
and I'd lull her like a child.

- cool stuff, alright!

[Hamlet]

as a representation of your and Vince´s highpowered logic, I present you with Engelbert

[nephron]

lol, that's Chamberlain, isn't it? Beyond being a loser, what's he got to do with.....

[slimedog]

I think what Vince is saying, and I agree with, is no matter how talented one is, the factor of luck plays a big part. I've come across many talented artists who didn't have the drive or luck but certainly were as good as many well known artists, musicians, singers etc. Just try to picture the Doors doing their music in 1957 not 1967, they wouldn't be accepted, doing it in 1977 they would've been deemed out of style. People like Morrison are very special but they represent many like themselves.

As far as legacy goes it's probably to early to tell with rock music but it looks like it could be remembered. One thing that's seem to be proven is certain jazz artists having lasting recognition. I feel that musicians working in any genre will be remembered for centuries if they're doing the best quality stuff as we've seen already in the blues and jazz fields.

The whole seperation of high art and low art i believe is a fallacy. It's the quality that matters not the genre. Being involved in writing I see how true this is, good writing is good not matter how it's used. Some of the best writing I've seen is in the Pulp Fiction genre.

So 200 years from now I expect people will be listening to Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Hank Wiliams, Johnny Cash, Muddy Waters, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Little Richard, Elvis Presley, The Beatles, The Stones, The Doors etc. It'd be interesting to see who makes the grade.

[Hamlet]

Or it could be, you aren´t talented enough to be a judge on people´s talents!

- But please tell me how exactly Mozart got lucky? And indeed by a "big part", as you write.

Take your time...