Who was naughty and who was nice?

[slimedog]

Hey, Vince, hope you have luck in getting you're story told, online or in book form. I'd be interested in reading it and I feel like it's going to happen eventually.

I've got a question. You probably met a lot of famous musicans working with the Doors. Just wanted to know if you want to dish some dirt on people that were unpleasant or people that were nice. Incidents backing up your thoughts would be appreciated.

[vince]

It is hard to remember difficult people - names dates and places. There were people who were not nice. the Miami Thugs were definitely not nice to any of us, They were abrupt, rude, very unhelpfull and of course, in the end cheated us (Not according to the contract though but they did break the rules therein)

I found that it was the lessor groups that had sojme community standing who tended to be the pushy ones. Their Manager woudl come on and start demanding things or giving orders to my BB.

Often I was "Told" by some prissy litte punk how we would prepare the stage for their set.

I found that the crews of the big people were mostly dedicated, fairly competant and relatively attentive people. Airplane, Swqeetwater, Who, Silver Bicycle, are those that I remember. James Brown's crew came in drunk, continued drinking and we would up setting up their equipment as best we could. That was foolish, not nasty.

There were a few promotors who were less than co-operative. Hall managers and union guys were probably the biggest offender. Remind me of Pittsburgh and I'll tell a tale for all. Ask about it on open Forum so all can see.

[nephron]

Vince,

Ray, in his book, mentioned that he tried to use 'pig pen's VOX organ at some outdoors concert somewhere. I don't recall. And that there was a lot of grief with that. That you guys had to still bring out all the same equipment the 'Dead' had just left on stage. Remember anything about this?

[wha happened]

This may have happened during the Spring/Summer of '67 before Vince came on board? I know the Dead and the Doors shared the bill during a few of those Fillmore Auditorium and outdoor So Cal festivals.

[vince]

The incidents you speak of happened while Bill Siddons was taking care ofthe Guys. It was a noteable experience for him and he and some of the Dead people almost came to blows over it. Bill did not have the sense to use willing helpers. I do not know why, so he burdened himself with the tough job of setting up and tearing down at every venue. This on top of getting the guys to their hotel, renting a truck at the airport, runing the show, getting the final ticket count and collecting the money and then the work after the show. He couldnot leave the equipment on stage so the guys had to make their own way back to the hotel - untilthey got big enough to demand limos.

Makeno mistake, Bill was a big, strong surfer boy. He was actually a pussy-cat. He was not a fighter and avoided trouble at every point he could. But it is my understanding that if ever Bill was to get into fisti-sufa, this was the occasion.

This did nothappen on my tour of duty. We would simply have tossed the stuff off the front of the stage as a lesson to other equipment people not to expect us to do their work.

We would help, for the sake of time or efficiency - Singer Bowl, Amsterdam and a couple of other places. Twice I let groups use out amps in very strange situations. Otherwise - Do you own thing, Man!!

[sullen and aborted]

i remember one occasion that the Organ Factory used the Doors' amplifiers at Andover High School during the fall of 1969.

[nephron]

I'd have loved to have seen you guys throw the 'Dead's shit off the front of the stage. Would have been great to see those premadonna dopehead assholes get pissed off, and then have no idea how to deal with the situation.

[vince]

Well, I don't think- if push came to shove, that wemight have tossed things over the edge.But it would have been removed without ceremony, order, a lot of consideration for packing.

Yes,, The Organ Factory did use the Acoustic Amps during my stay in Andover in Fall of 1968. I was busy building the cases for the new system at that time. The Boys in the Band were helping. They deserved some kind of consideration.

There were several occasions where small bands got"Tough" about setting up.We were usually several hours early and by the timeanyone else got there, were already set up and fully operational. This minor groups would come in with some idea of grandeur and startdemanding that we clear off so they could set up. They were the ones who were in real danger of being treated with less than civility.

We were there to put on a show in the most professional environment popssible. Most of the big groups had this same attitude. Another example ofmutual assistance that pops intomind was the Velvet Underground. There was a mutually beneficial relationship.

The Dead were just rebels and didn't care who knew about it. It was one of the cleardemonstrations of people letting public recognition go to their head and insteadof setting a good example, used their position to act like the worst of the Hollywood bunch.

[sullen and aborted]

it would be easy to move the velvet underground's equipment out of the way. just a few silvertone amps and a small drum kit. ---The grateful Dead however had a lot of equipment . With all of the directionless jamming that they did, they had better make it sound good. ..the velvets had a lot of good songs, and could get away with a somewhat amateurish yet effective sound...

[sullen and aborted]

it would be easy to move the velvet underground's equipment out of the way. just a few silvertone amps and a small drum kit. ---The grateful Dead however had a lot of equipment . With all of the directionless jamming that they did, they had better make it sound good. ..the velvets had a lot of good songs, and could get away with a somewhat amateurish yet effective sound...

[nephron]

amen, brutha

[slimedog]

I was unaware that the Velvet Underground played with the Doors(these are my two favorite bands).

How did these two bands get along, Vince? Lou Reed said very unkind thing about Morrison is the seventies but this is when he was going through several addictions so I don't know how much of this was him talking or the drugs.

Any details about this would be much appreciated.

[vince]

We played with them at Berkley 1968.02.10

The point of this topic was how nasty people were. Large or small, equipment was not easy to man handle on and off stage.There was also the toil of connecting everything so it made sense.

The Underground were pretty nice people to deal with. For me, that is what really mattered.

[nephron]

Reed may have had ugly things to say about Jim because of Nico?

[vince]

Name calling and bashing by individuals of one group about another is usually a result of low intellect (See Chat rooms) lack of education (See chat rooms), Lack of knowledge about the subject but a desire to shoot the mouth off (See chat rooms), Jealousy, envy, spite or a personal vendetta.

The base cause will never be known. It could even be attributed to the inconsistant behavior of Jim, several poor performances, stage drinking. Who knows

There were other groups who were "Bad Boys", but they were consistant in their performances. There were groups that were not really good but put on a show which made up for the difference. Certainly there were singers who were better looking and many far from it. There is only one other area of performers where I have seen or heard one person speaking ill of another - the Rappers. There seems to be such jealousy or envy among them that they measure their talent by how muvh they can cut other rappers down. What can I say.

People will be people.