Vince, thanks for your answer it has inspired a new Question

[Joriki]

I previously posted as Mr. Jones, but was unable to reuse that moniker. In your response you said that in his quieter moments, you found jim to be a quiet and repressed person who had theories about shocking people. What was that person like? Not the alcoholic declining Wild man, but the Quiet, educated, thoughful person you encountered in the early morning discussions before Kathy arrived? I have other questions, but since you requested one at a time, I will ask the other questions after your response. I feel very grateful to have you share your memories with us.

[vince]

Jim was a funny person. Jeckle and Hyde sort of. When he was alone and sober he was quiet, often reading some book or other or writing in his note book.

He would talk about things philosophical, outlandish, then sometimes theological. His questions would be provoking. His statements way out of line with basic logic, yet they wre sort of remotely plausible. His purpose was to see you react. It was not so much to provoke a heated discussion because many of his postulations were beyond reasonable. They were to make you assert the "Way Out" point of his premise and defend reasons why he was not correct - not why he was "Wrong".

He had a history of doing this even far back in his high school. It was to attract attention to himself. To make oyu remember him not because he was a nice guy, Who remember nice guys. Not because he was a bully. He was Very pacifistic. Of course it was Very Fashionable tobe anti war in those days and to be publicly so was to gain attention.

He rarely laughed during conversations, Smiled, yes, but no real Haw Haw Haw.
Do you know the story of his time on board ship with his father? Whether or not that is true... I was told by Siddons who was told, supposedly , by Andy. But it is something that could conceivably warp his mind. Who knows.

I don't really know what made Jim into the drug soaked creature he was in 1971. I do know that from a path of great prospect and creativity he turned into a monster and destroyed himself, the Group and those around him.

You know, you asked "What was he like?" He was really likeable when sober and ocnversational. Polite, quiet, respectful (Just what you would expect from the son of the Lord High Admiral). and repressed. stomped on, held down, living in the shadow of 2 older siblings and a powerful structured father. No real roots, no real friends, just someone inside a living machine that wanted to be loved, cared for, noticed. And Ray opened the Door - not to the universe but to hell.

Vine Treanor III

Next....

[Mystery Train]

Jim was a funny person. Jeckle and Hyde sort of. When he was alone and sober he was quiet, often reading some book or other or writing in his note book.

He would talk about things philosophical, outlandish, then sometimes theological. His questions would be provoking. His statements way out of line with basic logic, yet they wre sort of remotely plausible. His purpose was to see you react. It was not so much to provoke a heated discussion because many of his postulations were beyond reasonable. They were to make you assert the "Way Out" point of his premise and defend reasons why he was not correct - not why he was "Wrong".

He had a history of doing this even far back in his high school. It was to attract attention to himself. To make oyu remember him not because he was a nice guy, Who remember nice guys. Not because he was a bully. He was Very pacifistic. Of course it was Very Fashionable tobe anti war in those days and to be publicly so was to gain attention.

He rarely laughed during conversations, Smiled, yes, but no real Haw Haw Haw.
Do you know the story of his time on board ship with his father? Whether or not that is true... I was told by Siddons who was told, supposedly , by Andy. But it is something that could conceivably warp his mind. Who knows.

I don't really know what made Jim into the drug soaked creature he was in 1971. I do know that from a path of great prospect and creativity he turned into a monster and destroyed himself, the Group and those around him.

You know, you asked "What was he like?" He was really likeable when sober and ocnversational. Polite, quiet, respectful (Just what you would expect from the son of the Lord High Admiral). and repressed. stomped on, held down, living in the shadow of 2 older siblings and a powerful structured father. No real roots, no real friends, just someone inside a living machine that wanted to be loved, cared for, noticed. And Ray opened the Door - not to the universe but to hell.

Vine Treanor III

Next....

could please tell us how ray opened the door to hell? by founding the doors with jim?