The Buick commercial incident and consequences

[sunday trucker]

Hi Vince!
You said that the European tour was where everything started to change for the worst. I´ve heard (maybe it was in Ray´s book also and even in John´s, I can´t remember exactly) that the Buick incident had a big impact in the "boys" relationship with Jim and maybe that was the start.
What do you think and what is your inside view about it?
Thanks!

[vince]

When the Doors first signed with Elektra, the assigned the copyrights to their music to Elektra Records.

this was the normal procedure in that time. This protected the record companies should the initial record be a flop. They could recover their investment b licensing the rights to the music to other groups or individuals. Jose Feliciano with his versin of Light my Fire was a good expample.

Un this agreemnt, Elektra had the rights to the music to do what they would. Gm approached them about the use of the music for an ad and Holsman made a deal

You see, Elektra talked a lot about artists and environment and taking care of their own but in the end it came to only one thing - MONEY.

So, unknown to the Doors Holzman made the deal with Gm and the ad hit the airwaves, billboards and magazines. And the doors hit the roof.

It has been said that Ray, John and Robbie made the decision to allow Elecktra to give the music away. That they excluded Jim from the decision. I say not so.

The Doors, en masse, arrived at the doors of Elektra with a vengence. There was a long and very hot session with Holzman and the 4 boys.

The result was that they Doors got their copyrights back forever. In return they extended their contract to produce more records for Elektra.
The other result was that never again was Doors music to be given away to advertisement.

We all know that the music has been heard in movies, on TV programs and other spots. I have heard snatches of them in ads here in Korea.

It would seem that it is not allowed to use the music for commercial purposes, Never Ever, under any circumstances - Unless the price is right. Then it is OK. Don't thank us, just throw money.

There is one version fo the story. Who knows it may even be true, that Holzman asked the Doors for permission to use the music. It is said that they held a meeting, without Jim, and agreed (a 75% majority) that it was a deal. When Jim heard the ad he was upset and he faced the others with the process of decision making. He was faced with a singluar fact. Jim - you knew about the meeting and did not show up (as usual). We had the meeting and voted to let Holzman do the ad. We all agreed. You wre not here.

The end result was the same - Holzman returned all rights and interests in the Copyrights to the Doors and they hold them in partnership to this day. Jim's quarter share is not held by the Cursons as successors to the estate of Morrison.

Did this bring on the dissention in the ranks. I think not. Look at some of the performances that came after this.

No, I maintain that the shock of Ray, John and Robbie putting on an internationally acclaimed show without his being present is what unseated Jim from his throne and possibly is sanity.

[thewallsscreamedpoetry]

Were you one of the Directors of Elektra records during your spare time Vince.....you seem to know a lot about their business practices?
This is what Holzman says in the Elektra History Follow The Music.

"The General Motors TV commercial may have been the flashpoint for some of Jim's antics. GM asked to use ‘Light My Fire’ as the theme for a new model car. They were offering good money $80,000 in 1969 dollars which would be split Doors $60,000/Elektra $20,000. During the negotiations Jim was off and nowhere to be found but the remaining Doors OK'd it and so did Max Fink who was Jim's lawyer.
Personally I didn't care one way or the other.
When Jim rematerialized...he freaked. He was sure we had all taken advantage of his absence. The other Doors supposedly laid it on my doorstep. Jim phoned me in New York. I set out the sequence of events in typical Jaconian detail and he seemed mollified....or at least no longer blaming me! I said 'Jim, as far as Elektra is concerned its not a matter of money. Elektra will contribute its full share to a film scholarship fund at UCLA......an interest of his and Ray's....if The Doors will match it. That still leaves $40,000....$10,000 each for the Doors.
I was urging him to take the money and then turn around and do some real good with it. Jim thought it was a notion to consider but after that conversation the subject never again came up.
A commercial was shot and aired but very sparesly. Jim may have hoped to create such a furore that GM would be reluctant to use the tune. He once threatened to take his quarter share, buy a bunch of Buicks and smash them up on Santa Monica Boulevard"
Jac Holzman Follow The Music (p283)

So basically Holzman is a liar?

[Joriki]

I read that book. Most of what Holzman wrote was self serving. Though, his elegy for morrison was quite poetic. But hey, it all seemed like it was recalled through a marijuana haze from far off in Maui, so who knows what's right? I'd trust Vince.

[sunday trucker]

Thank you for the reply Vince.
I think no book will tell the same story the same way. Compare John´s and Ray´s and put Danny´s in there if you want a bigger discrepancy.
What if Jim said that to Jack for whatever reason but acted some other way in front of others?
I´ve read a crime story one time in which the private eye said "you listen to all the people involved in the crime scene, if two stories are exactly the same, its a lie".

[vince]

No screamer, Holzman told it exactly as I did. The difference between his version and mine is that he gave the figure involved in the transaction. Otherwise the stories are the same.

I did give a possible alternative version. The - Jim was absent one is the correct one.

No - Holzman did not lie. He had no reason to. He gave his version in great detail as it regarded the financial transaction which I felt was not my business to give out.

Evidently you are so anxious to criticize me that you failed to read my full posting before dashing off our message suggesting that Holzman was a liar. Why would you ask such a question unless you though Holzman was lieing?

Regards my tenure as Fantasy Manager. You have a lot to say when you were not there. Let's see you put on the public forum how you would have handled him. It is easy for you to sit back and criticise what other ssay - You can tear down the house - Let's see what you build in it's place.

You have every right to make comment but until you have a more constructive approach you should reall not start dumping unwarranted sarcasm on people who were embroiled in that mess and, like Ray, John and Robbie, along with several others, suffered as a result of some of Bill ill conceived decisions and Jim's errational behavior.

Post all you want. say what you will. That is what this forum is for. It would be nice if you kept it constructive rather than tearing down others.

By the way, I come here to answer question people. like yourself, might like to ask. I have not, unlike you, set up a commersial enterprise based on riding the coat-tails of the Doors.

Now - for you Mt. Jym. Have you made a gross assumption that "Vince" imbibed anything at anytime, before, during and after the 60's?
My perceptions of the Doors came from four years of rehearsals, Recording sessions, Public Performances and quiet talks with Ray, John, Robby and, more extensively, Jim.

Seems to me that you are a wanna be. A pretender to the throne. Why should you have to imitate Jim Morrison. Why don't you be yourself? If you have the talent, the personality, the music, you should be a great success in your own right on your own merits. I feel secure in suggesting that your might have a lot more pride following your own life, rather than trying to live some one elses.

It is your right to do what you feel is best. No one questions that or denies it to you. Be yourself. I am sure you are really a good guy under your own name. It will certainly save a lot of money for drugs and drinking parties. It is also tough to stop living at 27.

Do what you will, but living a lie is no way to get out of any town, big or small. I would rather meet you and hear Your music than meet an imitation of Jim and listen to your version of his music. It just doesn't happen.

Good luck to you. I hope you succeed in whatever you do. And remember I do not drink alcohol in any form, use any drugs but Asperin and I do not smoke. Should you encounter any former band boy and ask this question, they will assure you that there was a Very Strictly Enforced, no second chance, no drink, no drugs policy for any and every member of my crew. One guy, at least, found out that this was no joke. He missed an awfully good show and banishment from the crew for the sake of a can of beer.

[vince]

Stuart & Jim:

Guys, read my response. Did I not say that I had the feeling that he was an Ace in his own right? The point I was making was very simple - Rather than follow in Jim's footsteps, walk his own path. Don't be an imitation of Jim Morrison, Be a real portrait of yourself.

I did not criticize in a negative sense, rather as i said, I would rather hear your music in reality that the Doors Music by imitation.

Whrite on and be truly good at it. Put that Creativity the Stuart speaks of out front. But do it in front of yourself - not a ghost of Morrison. Ok, Did I say it right this time? And good luck to you and any other talented person.

I have to tell all you peeps here of the great number of incredibly talented people I met in those 4 years. Some of these groups were unbelievable. yet they stayed in the backwaters of local group makes good in big city - Sheboygen and Greenville, or perhaps Orrville, Ohio.... (Where???). these people wee so deserving of a hit record and national recognition.... What ahppened? Wrong time, wrong place. that is what separates the famous and the not so.

Entertainment is a tough, hard, sad, frustrating business. Many are called but few are chosen. Maybe this guy can and will make it. That would be nice. More the better on his own merit.

Now - On to some conflicts proposed by Jym

Heads you win tails I lose.

My perceptions are altered if I use drugs and they are altered if I don't. I wonder how perceptions can be altered when living a "normal" existance without the influence of "Mind Altering Drugs'

Under the circumstances that you propose, every person who renders an opinion of the Doors, their tragedies, Jim and his path to self destruction, including yourself, has been altered either through the use of drugs or through the abstention from use of drugs.

Following that line, No one has a proper or accurate perspective of anything to do with anyhting. We are all living in a delusional world of our own perceptions.... Let's deal with reality. What happened, really happened and reality cannot be changed with or without drugs.

If you want absolutes as to why Jim behaved as he did - there are none. there never was and now never will be. History is recorded, Those of us who were associated with him in both professional and personal context can only relate to the present generation what we experienced, what we saw, what really happened. We can only speculate what drove him to behave as he did under any circumstances. We can state without doubt, that his erratic behavior was always a result of the influence of alcohol (not other drugs)

In any case, my perceptions of the group and those in it, particularly the favorite topic on this forum, were not altered by anything. I was there, I lived in it and with it. I suffered from the consequences of his behavior and his philosophy.

Debate my conclusions if you will, but please, spare me the indignity of suggesting that my perceptions were altered by my Lack of drugs. What do you suggest, I would see the truth under the influence of Acid, Cocaine... surely you jest.

We do appreciate you participation on the forum. But the postulations you have put forth make me wonder why I bother talking to people. Who needs my warped perceptions. If they are so distorted then perhaps it would be as well if I do not make them public. Far be it from me to misinform those who come here to seek the truth as a result of my "perceptions" distorted as a result of lack of drug use.

Let's hear your accurate and insightful assesment of Jim and the demons that drove him. The real story would be a revelation to us all.
Perhaps you can tell us where we went wrong and how we could have prevented the ultimate end. Seems like I failed in my tenure as "Fantasy Manager" You take over the job. The pay is good. (Criticism from every know-it-all on the web). I resign.

[Rey]

Vince, you gotta take the good with the bad when you expose yourself on an Internet forum like this... there are a lot of people (like myself) who truly appreciate your perspective and effort here, but there'll always be naysayers and just plain bitter, irrational people waiting to pounce on everything you say.

Can't have one without the other... just roll with it.

Screw 'em.

[vince]

Well, perhaps that is a though. You know I like commentary and certainly dialogue. The exchange of ideas and incidents is refreshing, though sometimes a bit sad.

What I don't likeisoutlandish concepts based on absolute wild fantasy.

I was invited to see a site concerning the cemetary and other points in Parish where Jim frequented during his visits and stay in Paris. Without one shred of research, facts, or even a casual question being asked this guy states that Leon Bernard was the Financial manager for the Doors. Nothing dould be further from the truth. Why was this statement made. Was is based on a claim by Leon and, as a result, the simple truth was not investigated? Was it a gross assumption based on supposition.

It is crap like that which really bothers me. People believe that, just like the innocent public believes the fantasy of the Stone Movie and the Sugarman book.

I suppose that you are insinuating that my views are not distortions of the truth - even though I am neither drunk nor stones. Goodness, what a relief. I was about to pack it in.

Thanks for your support rey. I am glad that there are people out these who want information, not sensationalism and thruth rather than mythology

[vince]

I reread Jym's site. My mistake in suggesting that he i a Wanna Be - It was a review of a story he wrote about a person who was a Jim copy=cat. I mininterpreted this as the original story. Sorry about that. Evidently those who have read his books feel that they are worthy of recognition.
Congratulations. Many are called, few are chosen. May your success continue.