Jeff comments on Wolfgang's Vault

[hardrockcafe]

Feeback from Jeff today on LL: http://www.thedoors.com/forums/index.ph ... 1444&st=20

Hey, all I can tell you guys is that as a part of our lawsuit with Wolfgang's Vault, we/they did an extensive inventory and archival search of all their holdings - and they represented to us and our lawyers, in court-admitted legal documents, that they have NO Doors recordings.

[Garlon]

So what exactly is their lawsuit against WV for then?

The Doors played many Bil Graham venues, and Graham had recording equipment set up at all of them pretty much, certainly Fillmore Auditirium and Winterland Arena.

1967
Fillmore Auditoium - Jan 6, 7, 8
Fillmore Auditoium - Jan 14, 15
Fillmore Auditoium - June 9, 10
Fillmore Auditoium - July 28, 29, 30
Fillmore Auditoium - Nov 16
Winterland Arena - Nov 17, 18
Winterland Arena - Dec 26, 27, 28

1968
Fillmore East - Mar 22, 23

1969
Cow Palace - July 25

1970
Winterland Feb 5, 6

That's 21 possible dates at Bill Graham venues. Some of those dates would have even been for two shows per night, so now you're looking at upwards of 25 shows possibly recorded.

There is no doubt that at least some of these shows were taped. Perhaps misfiled in the WV archive for some of them. Maybe some of the shows were filed with the tapes for the opening acts? Maye over the years someone went into the vault and took all of the Dors shows? Maybe WV did not know the dates of the Doors performances to cross-reference in their archive? Maybe Jeff and/or WV are not telling the truth about it all?

Look on the WV website. They have TONS of recordings of bands - bands that you've never even heard of too.

[StrangeNightOfStone]

Feeback from Jeff today on LL: http://www.thedoors.com/forums/index.ph ... 1444&st=20

Hey, all I can tell you guys is that as a part of our lawsuit with Wolfgang's Vault, we/they did an extensive inventory and archival search of all their holdings - and they represented to us and our lawyers, in court-admitted legal documents, that they have NO Doors recordings.

If Jeff said it, it must be true

[StrangeNightOfStone]

As much as the Grateful Dead bore me, I am a tad jealous at the sheer quantity of soundboard Dead shows that have survived. It seems nearlly every single Grateful Dead performance has survived. Why haven't the Doors been as lucky? Their Winterland and Fillmore shows are crisp

[hardrockcafe]

As much as the Grateful Dead bore me, I am a tad jealous at the sheer quantity of soundboard Dead shows that have survived. It seems nearlly every single Grateful Dead performance has survived. Why haven't the Doors been as lucky? Their Winterland and Fillmore shows are crisp

The Dead had their road crew record nearly every show, many of them on multitrack. Thus the Dead have their own tapes in the their archive.

[StrangeNightOfStone]

As much as the Grateful Dead bore me, I am a tad jealous at the sheer quantity of soundboard Dead shows that have survived. It seems nearlly every single Grateful Dead performance has survived. Why haven't the Doors been as lucky? Their Winterland and Fillmore shows are crisp

The Dead had their road crew record nearly every show, many of them on multitrack. Thus the Dead have their own tapes in the their archive.

Can you imagine if the Doors has done the same thing? The mind boggles..We would no longer be condemned to an audio library of crappy audience tapes, but rather have crisp soundboard performances.
The Grateful Dead's 'Dicks Picks' releases contain scores of high quality recordings-I lost count. Is it dozens?
Why can Doors fans have something like that??

[Chris M]

Perhaps misfiled in the WV archive for some of them. Maybe some of the shows were filed with the tapes for the opening acts? Maye over the years someone went into the vault and took all of the Doors shows? Maybe WV did not know the dates of the Doors performances to cross-reference in their archive? Maybe Jeff and/or WV are not telling the truth about it all?

I'm not sure why people think there is a WV archive. It seems clear WV was a ruse to sell merchandise. After nearly 7 years we haven't seen any evidence the "vault" contains unheard material from the 1960's recorded at Graham's venues.

Bill Graham was the manager of the Jefferson Airplane--hence the numerous Airplane SB's. He was also involved with bay area band Quicksilver Messenger Service which might have to do with how often they were recorded. The Dead recorded all of their own shows.

It isn't just the Doors that aren't represented on recordings from the Graham venues....Love, Buffalo Springfield, the '67 Pink Floyd and Moby Grape each played several dates at Winterland and the Fillmore in 1967 and there isn't a trace of a SB recording. Hell, the JHE played the Fillmore every night for a week shortly after Monterey and we don't even have an AUD tape of those shows.

[Garlon]

Chris M - You do know that Henrix Family is releasing a 4cd set of Hendrix Winterland performances from October 1968, right? And if you order through Amazon they are throwing in a Feb 1968 Winterland performance too as a bonus cd.

The Doors have at least one Winterland/Fillmore Auditorium show - and no, the doors weren't the one's recording it.

They have Moby Grape from Winterland up from March 1968 on the site. They have Grateful Dead from Fillmore Auditorium from 1966 on the site.
For Jefferson Airplane they have more than 20 shows from 1966 alone.
Paul Butterfield Blues Band from 1966.
Cream 1968.
BB King 1968.

Who ever said that every recording they have has already been uploaded to their site anyway?

Shows were taped. Were the tapes misplaced? Were they stolen? Did BG keep some recordings in his personal collection, if he even had one? Has Doors management simply burned so many bridges that WV pretty much said "fuck off, we don't have any tapes" and simply had the tapes destroyed?

[Chris M]

Chris M - You do know that Henrix Family is releasing a 4cd set of Hendrix Winterland performances from October 1968, right?

Right, it was a recording commissioned by the record label made by Wally Heider's 8-track mobile recording truck. Nothing to do with Wolfgang's Vault or Bill Graham's staff. The 2/68 show was released by Experience Hendrix (via Dagger) years before WV existed.

They have Moby Grape from Winterland up from March 1968 on the site. They have Grateful Dead from Fillmore Auditorium from 1966 on the site.

Sourced from well circulated bootlegs.

For Jefferson Airplane they have more than 20 shows from 1966 alone.

Like I said, Bill Graham managed the Jefferson Airplane.

[wha happened]

The Doors tapes are long gone. They were either given to former BG insiders or stolen. There were times sound guys recorded shows for their own purpose without the knowledge of BG or the band. I'm surprised WV doesn't have ONE show, especially after the Chuck Berry Winterland '67 set turned up.

[Silver Forest]

The Doors tapes are long gone. They were either given to former BG insiders or stolen. There were times sound guys recorded shows for their own purpose without the knowledge of BG or the band. I'm surprised WV doesn't have ONE show, especially after the Chuck Berry Winterland '67 set turned up.

When you say long gone means even before Graham's death? Was he a very protective guy in terms of his vault or the tapes were stolen before the accident?
Also, I got the impression that some of the sound men recorded some shows from their own initiative. Could it be possible? Using Graham's equipment and recording without his knowledge? From my understanding Graham was ahead of his time and he knew this golden age of rock music had to be captured. For his own advantage and for the benefit of R&R. But again these ideas and questions came from the understanding I had from what I've been reading.
Sorry if I made some questions you either don't know or are not interested in answering.

[hardrockcafe]

So what has Vince said other than the Winterland and Fillmore shows were recorded? Did he say by whom (i.e. Graham's people or other acts)? Did he say multitrack, twin track or mono?

[Chris M]

Was he a very protective guy in terms of his vault or the tapes were stolen before the accident?

FWIW he gave a 2-68 JHE SB reel to a soft drink vendor. Years later EH bought the tape and released it on the Dagger Paris '67/San Francisco '68 disc.

[Porsche]

There was also a large fire at BG's headquarters in 1985. Not sure what the extent of the damage was to his collection of live recordings.

[MajorMojo]

Perhaps misfiled in the WV archive for some of them. Maybe some of the shows were filed with the tapes for the opening acts? Maye over the years someone went into the vault and took all of the Doors shows? Maybe WV did not know the dates of the Doors performances to cross-reference in their archive? Maybe Jeff and/or WV are not telling the truth about it all?

I'm not sure why people think there is a WV archive. It seems clear WV was a ruse to sell merchandise. After nearly 7 years we haven't seen any evidence the "vault" contains unheard material from the 1960's recorded at Graham's venues.

It isn't just the Doors that aren't represented on recordings from the Graham venues....Love, Buffalo Springfield, the '67 Pink Floyd and Moby Grape each played several dates at Winterland and the Fillmore in 1967 and there isn't a trace of a SB recording. Hell, the JHE played the Fillmore every night for a week shortly after Monterey and we don't even have an AUD tape of those shows.

It did take a couple years, but the WV has been thoroughly archived. They may be keeping a tiny number of "goodies" for a rainy day but it seems what has surfaced has surfaced.

IF tapes got looted, is there any hope they will turn up? One woudl think that if the Hendrix estate chase tapes somewhat agressively with good money stuff would have popped up from the woodwork.

[StrangeNightOfStone]

I wonder if Graham's 'Morrison Special' helmut ever surfaced?