Should the Hollywood Bowl audio be restored?
Moderators: The Freedom Man, TheDoorsMusic
- Porsche
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2328
- Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:58 am
I've rewatched this segment and, to me, I think it's an editing choice that makes it look like Botnick is lying. Because he makes it clear that he wants to be honest with fans and tell them they had to use some audio tricks to recreate Jim's vocal in places and even to recreate the environment of the Bowl so the sound wasn't too dry. To think he would then contradict himself so blatantly by making up where he got the HILY vocal doesn't make sense.Beauvoir wrote:IMO he's lying.Encuentro wrote: Botnick said in the special features that the vocal for HILY was pieced together from various performances, a word here, a word there. This obviously isn't true. The vocal is from the studio version. Was this a mistake or deliberately misleading?
If you watch the bonus feature again, you'll notice everyone starts to talk about re-inserting HILY into the film. Then they cut to Botnick who doesn't mention the song at all and he says Jim's mic cut out so he had to go through several live performances such as Pittsburgh or Philadelphia to find portions that would work. I'm pretty sure he's talking about WTMO at that time not HILY but whoever edited the video didn't think it was an important distinction. Then at the end they show Ray saying they were able to bring the vocals back which is just a complete misunderstanding on his part regarding what Botnick actually did.
I'm blaming whoever made this bonus feature for editing this segment in such a way that it's unclear that Botnick used a studio vocal for HILY. Botnick wouldn't have just made up that he used bits from live performances for that track when he knows they don't have a live version. At least I hope he wouldn't.
- Beauvoir
- Registered User
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:38 am
- Location: Toronto CANADA
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2162
- Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:33 pm
Dry is not necessarily bad. I got the CD and think the reverb approach Botnick used makes this sound a little too wet - it kind of blurs and "fogs" the timbre of voice and instruments.Porsche wrote: Because he makes it clear that he wants to be honest with fans and tell them they had to use some audio tricks to recreate Jim's vocal in places and even to recreate the environment of the Bowl so the sound wasn't too dry.
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1626
- Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:37 am
Why did they fly in Robbys guitar parts and Rays backing harmonies from the studio cut then? Robby must have played the worst gig of his life at the Bowl, but HILY is a good performance. Plus it just doesn't sound real to me. The only thing which does sound real from that song are the drums, gibson, piano bass, and a couple of little vocals from Jim at the end.
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2162
- Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:33 pm
There are also some Manzarek vocal overdubs. Example - Alabama Song: 1:12 - 1:27. Manzarek's overdubbed vocals are panned hard left.
Botnick's liner notes indicate that Ray and Jim's native vocals were combined on one track of the 8 track tape (instead of separate tracks). Therefore, when Jim's native vocals are panned in the center, and we hear Ray's vocals panned to the side of the stereo image -- there's some Manzarek vocal overdubbin' goin' on!
Botnick's liner notes indicate that Ray and Jim's native vocals were combined on one track of the 8 track tape (instead of separate tracks). Therefore, when Jim's native vocals are panned in the center, and we hear Ray's vocals panned to the side of the stereo image -- there's some Manzarek vocal overdubbin' goin' on!
- Encuentro
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1009
- Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 1:44 am
I just listened to that section and didn't hear it. It's a very short interlude. Could it have been during the intro to Alabama Song? I heard what sounded like someone calling for The Soft Parade, but it wasn't clear.Porsche wrote: Anyone catch the audience members requesting "The Soft Parade" after WTMO? Odd, for a show that happened a year before the album was released. Another hidden AL overdub! Hehe.
- Silver Forest
- Senior Member
- Posts: 3339
- Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:09 pm
- Location: Lisboa, Portugal
- Porsche
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2328
- Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:58 am
Yeah, after WTMO, during the opening of "Alabama Song" a few fans call for "The Soft Parade." You don't hear them in the original video mix.Encuentro wrote:I just listened to that section and didn't hear it. It's a very short interlude. Could it have been during the intro to Alabama Song? I heard what sounded like someone calling for The Soft Parade, but it wasn't clear.Porsche wrote:Anyone catch the audience members requesting "The Soft Parade" after WTMO? Odd, for a show that happened a year before the album was released. Another hidden AL overdub! Hehe.
- Encuentro
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1009
- Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 1:44 am
Thanks. Strange that Bruce would dub in audience noise under the intro to Alabama Song.Porsche wrote:Yeah, after WTMO, during the opening of "Alabama Song" a few fans call for "The Soft Parade." You don't hear them in the original video mix.Encuentro wrote:I just listened to that section and didn't hear it. It's a very short interlude. Could it have been during the intro to Alabama Song? I heard what sounded like someone calling for The Soft Parade, but it wasn't clear.Porsche wrote:Anyone catch the audience members requesting "The Soft Parade" after WTMO? Odd, for a show that happened a year before the album was released. Another hidden AL overdub! Hehe.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the audience laughter after the line "Six bachelors and their bride" seems different. It comes in before Jim finishes the word "bride."
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 355
- Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:10 am
- Location: Malibu
Yeah, to me, HILY contains a lot more than Morrison's vocals from the studio master. If other "studio instrumentation" is added to the live version of HILY, what is the point of including it at all? The authentic, live feel is not there on that track.mystery_train67 wrote:Why did they fly in Robbys guitar parts and Rays backing harmonies from the studio cut then? Robby must have played the worst gig of his life at the Bowl, but HILY is a good performance. Plus it just doesn't sound real to me. The only thing which does sound real from that song are the drums, gibson, piano bass, and a couple of little vocals from Jim at the end.
- The Royal Sperm
- Senior Member
- Posts: 3172
- Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:23 am
posted on facebook:
Fun Fact: In order to restore the lost audio to Jim’s performance on “Hello, I love You” at the Bowl, Bruce Botnick took bits and pieces from other performances and pieced them back together to match the video from the Hollywood Bowl.
www.KatRecords.com
http.//devil-sperm.tripod.com
http.//devil-sperm.tripod.com
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1626
- Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:37 am
- marcelpilman
- Registered User
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:36 pm
- miltonjumbee
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1200
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:00 am
- The Royal Sperm
- Senior Member
- Posts: 3172
- Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:23 am
- Porsche
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2328
- Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:58 am
Reason #999 you shouldn't let the interns run your official Facebook page.The Royal Sperm wrote:posted on facebook:Fun Fact: In order to restore the lost audio to Jim’s performance on “Hello, I love You” at the Bowl, Bruce Botnick took bits and pieces from other performances and pieced them back together to match the video from the Hollywood Bowl.
- avp2029
- Registered User
- Posts: 115
- Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:33 pm
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Here's something I made for you all tonight. It only took me about 20 minutes using Audacity. This is how it should have been done for the CD/Blu-ray. See if you notice the difference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_TjFPYuHcg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_TjFPYuHcg
"It's still alive inside of me" - Little Steven
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2162
- Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:33 pm
Scream before the guitar break.avp2029 wrote:Here's something I made for you all tonight. It only took me about 20 minutes using Audacity. This is how it should have been done for the CD/Blu-ray. See if you notice the difference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_TjFPYuHcg
-
- Registered User
- Posts: 106
- Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:52 pm
Good job adding in the scream. You really can't tell that it's even from th audience tape. So it was really a huge fail on their part not to add it in.
There is simply no quality control with their releases. Botnick totally butchered WTMO too.
There is simply no quality control with their releases. Botnick totally butchered WTMO too.
Where are the recordings we were promised? Where is the music, the new music, dying on the reels?
-
- Registered User
- Posts: 106
- Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:52 pm
If you watch the bonus materials on Live at the Bowl '68, Botnick says how the people who remastered the film footage synched up every frame of film from every angle BEFORE they synched the final audio mix and obviously before they made the final edit of the film. This means it would not have been a significant effort for them to provide us with the multi-angle feature that DVD/Blu Ray supports. They already had the alternate angles synched, so why not put it on the disc?
Where are the recordings we were promised? Where is the music, the new music, dying on the reels?
- Roughie
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2454
- Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:21 pm
- Location: New Zealand
- Contact:
Cause this is The Doors!Garlon wrote:If you watch the bonus materials on Live at the Bowl '68, Botnick says how the people who remastered the film footage synched up every frame of film from every angle BEFORE they synched the final audio mix and obviously before they made the final edit of the film. This means it would not have been a significant effort for them to provide us with the multi-angle feature that DVD/Blu Ray supports. They already had the alternate angles synched, so why not put it on the disc?
Starting pre production on a sketch show. More soon.
Follow me on twitter @purplesheepprd
Follow me on twitter @purplesheepprd
- miltonjumbee
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1200
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:00 am
- Buda
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4186
- Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:55 pm
- lizardkingteo
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2456
- Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:00 pm
- Location: Greece
- miltonjumbee
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1200
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:00 am
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 913
- Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 7:09 pm
I was wondering if anyone could rip the bonus feature from the DVD that talks about "restoring" the songs that weren't released originally on the '87 release, particularly the clips of HILY and Texas Radio that have the native audio intact. My DVD player isn't working on my desktop at the moment, otherwise I wouldn't ask. I'd even be ok w/just the audio.
- desertlizard
- Senior Member
- Posts: 714
- Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:31 pm
- Location: MEXICO