new orleans

We're lucky to have former Doors road manager Vince Treanor here to answer fan questions and share some of his memories. Ask Vince about anything related to the equipment The Doors used, stage set-ups, specific concerts, the band after Jim's death, and working on the Oliver Stone movie.

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Mystery Train
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new orleans

Post by Mystery Train »

new orleans, the last show. there are a few questions i´d like to ask you:

1. you have stated in an other post, that jim did apologize to ray, robby and john for his behaviour. he must have felt the bad vibrations. they sure were angry with him in a way. do i understand you correct that there have been plans of john, ray and robby that they would go one without jim? so basicly it was clear before the show, that new orleans would be last show of the doors - at least for an uncertain time?

2. can you remeber much of the show? can you remember if they did play riders in the storm? was jim heavily drunk? do you know if the show was recorded? how was the mood after the show?

thanks, mystery train
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Post by Chris M »

It's really a pleasure to read Vince's recollections here. Many thanks in advance. Some follow up questions about the New Orleans show...did Jim really smash the floor of stage with the mic stand? Was the show really only 30 minutes long or was it more of a standard set?

Thanks again,

Chris
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Post by Chris M »

Bump.
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Post by cutis »

Vince, can you post anything about your memories of The Doors final concert (with Jim) at New Orleans??

Was Jim in a foul mood? Was he thoroughly bored? Did he tell a terrible joke? Did he slam the mike stand into the stage?

Some of us are so curious because none of the band members or "boys"
seem to have any clear memory of that final concert with Jim. Ray has gone on to say that he saw "Jim's spirit" leave him but that's not saying very much.

Maybe you can share any memories of this last final concert with Jim?
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The last picture show (New Orleans)

Post by vince »

The boys came on stage in the usual manner. Ray, John & Robbie so John could make sure his drums were set correctly and Robbie that he could tuneup.

Jim followed and the set began. Jim had been drinking. If you could not tell by his body language all he had to do was breathe on you and you would probably be as drunk.

The set went on until they came to Light my fire. Ray and Robby went through the instrumental dialogue and it was time for Jim to pick up the thread and continue. When he finished the first part of the sond he had sat down on the drum platform holding the mike.

Ray and Robbie are patiently reworking the "Cue" for jim and nothing seemed to prompt him to get off his ass and start singing again. This went on for selveral minuted. I believe it was Bill, who had my permission to be on the small and crowded stage, said quitely, "He's so drunk he forgot the words."

Suddenly, without warning, Jim stood up and moved to the mike stand. He left the mike laying on the stage. He picked up the whole stand and raised it over his head. He bbought it down repeatedly smashing the floor, made of 2 layers of 3/4" plywood, until he had shattered that both layers of plywood and made a hole. on that last stroke, the base of the mike went through the hole and snapped off the shaft. Jim was a little surprised, I think, He stoood up and took the shaft, olympic style, and threw it into the audience.

Why someone was not speared through and through I do not know because was packed. He had to hit something. He then walked off stage and went up the staird, on the sudience left side, and disappeared through the door.

John threw down his stick, commented that he would "Never play with that asshole again" and walked off. Ray and Robby were sort of in shock. Ray stood up and Robby unslung his guitat. One after the other they followed John off stage and up the stairs.

The wasit.

Remember that this was not supposed to be the last doors performance. It was the second of a two part test to see if Jim would keep his promise to behaveon stage and perform as he should instead of like the drunk he was.

As for Ray's observation of Spirit Departure, I think that is more for publicity than anything. Ray idolizes Jim, who ruined the group, and I will never know why except that keeping the myth alive makes money in the bank.

All this shaman thing and spirits and so on makes for interesting press and all but in reality it is more food for groupies than common sense.
In fact, when one analises the situation, Jim was just packed full of spitir. In any spirits left him they ended up either in the toilet or on the lfoor.

It is that kind of B.S. that permitted Jim to behave as he did and for the group to do nothing constructive about it. It was promotion of this spiritual crap and allowed Ray to justify not taking step to stop Jim. Of course we must consider also that, in the early days, Ray encouraged the use and abuse of drugs and alcohol - evidenced by information conveniently provided by Ray. After that kind of a start, how could ray say - you are being a bad boy doing what we used to have so much fun doing???

To telly ou the truth I think they cannot remember because they do not want to. It was a painful experience. There was only 2 Band Boys working those two shows with me. Anyone else who claims otherwise must prove it to me first. There are too many people out there who claim to have so much to do with the Doors equipment crew. In fact there are only about 20 or so who were more than one night stands.

Just let me cover some of the other questions in this topic. The mood after the show was foul to sayt he least. The boys were sort of angry with each other for being gulled by Jim. They were definitely angry with Jim for not only failing in his promise to behave, but to destroy the performance with his drunken antics. They may even have had to pay for the stage damage. That was adding insult to injury.
One thing certainly, this firmed their resolve to get rid of Jim. From that ill fated day in 1970 the path led straight to "Other Voices" just 10 months later.

Was Jim heavily Drunk. I would suggest that on a scale of 1 ~ 10, he was at about #12.

#) minute set. Would you understand that the first part of the performance went by in Eastern Standard time. Light My Fire took an eternity.

As far as jokes, I think there was really only one - Jim Morrison. There was only one problem, however, No one was laughing.

My feelings after watching that debacle. Dusgust, disappointment, despair, frustration and knowing the conditions surrounding the tour, I also knew that the future for me and everyone in and around the Doors was very much uncertain. I knew what they were going to do but not exactly how they intended to reconstitute.

OK - Did I get all the answers fro everyone. Probably not. I am sure I have generated more questions. But before they are asked - you know the result and you know what happened on scene. What they played and how long it took were not the point of that show. In fact that, in my humble opinion, is about the least important item. The point of that tragedy, the crux of the situation was that for the Doors, it was most certainly the beginning of the end.

I have been saddened by the current state of affairs between Ray and Robby and John. It is most regrettable that Ray and Robby are performing and John is not with them. It is tragic that Riders is a mere shadow, a reminder of what happened in 1972. You cannot make apple pie with lemons and Riders is limes as compared to what they could and should be doing.

Mind you, this is no reflection of my deepest respect for the talents of those two gentlemen. Never can anything take that away. It is just that Riders is a Doors copy cat band without the sound.

Yes, I know - this will bring on screams of protest. You ears should tell you the accuracy of what I am saying. Be objective, disassociated, impartial.

For now, folks.
Vince
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Post by Chris M »

Thanks so much for that Vince. An excellent read.
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Post by Bluecow2 »

The guy with the New Orleans recording (who worked at the warehouse and saw the show) told me the concert was more of an instrumental event. Morrison did not participate in singing that much. However, he goes on to say the crowd got into the long instrumental sets and "just kind of grooved on being in the company of Morrison/Doors." On the way to the stage prior to the show a Warehouse "hanger-on-er" he knew slipped Jim a ball of hashish laced with opium which he gobbled down. This contributed to his 'lethargic performance.'
And he also confirms that Jim did smash the mic stand on the stage. It was patched but never covered up.
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too bad

Post by cutis »

Thanks Vince for sharing your memories of that very sad night. I come to the conclusion of only one thing. Jim Morrison was tired of being "Jim Morrison" and really was at a loss at what to do next with his life. At least he was able to rally and fulfill his contractual obligations with the Doors by writing songs and providing vocals for the last album, LA Woman.

I know you don't consider LA Woman to be a very good Doors album, at least in comparison to the first three albums the band did back in 1967 and 1968. But some of us do really like the title track and especially, Riders on the Storm. Those two songs, for me, are the best songs on the album.

Jim was burned out from performing by the end of '70. And like you said, going way back to Amsterman in 1968, Jim already was signalling an end to his desire to perform live on stage.

It's amazing to think Jim lasted as long as he did. I'm sorry you were witness to such a collapse of a human being who really was at his core, a decent fellow, with a penchant for being a talented "wordsmith" and song writer. I hope you are contacted for the Doors documentary that is being produced this year. Your views are very important and help round out a picture of the Doors and Jim Morrison.
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TO BAD - by Curtis

Post by vince »

Thank you for your appreciation.

The last album, in my humble opinion is flat and boring conpared to the first 3. His voice was bad, the music was into the blues style and the tonality to the music was flat. Very little dynamics. Again this is not a result of good writing. this was of necessity. Jim simply did not have the stamina to cut good tracks. His voice would not last for more than 1 or 2 songs in sequence without getting sore and raspy. That album is less musical talent than physical limitations. I know, many people like it and far be it from me to offend. Everyone has their special music. That is why I build big pipe organs.

As far as Jim not wanting to perform. Do you know what a scare tactic is? Of course you do. Now, you sit down and be Ray. By the way since there is really such a thing as split personality, be John and Robby as well.

Now here you are in an office meeting . Bill is siting behinf his Walnut Executive Desk and Jim is sitting in from facing you guys on the couch and Lor Jim (Have you every read that book?) say - Gee guys I am quitting.

Will you explain to me what, after you changed your undies, you would do???

Would the play be something like - Gee Jim, take down you pants so we can kiss your ass to make you stay!!! You bet your life.

Because the three of you are terrified of what will happen if The lizard King takes a walk.

Now if Jim really wanted to quit. Why didn't he. A sense of Loyalty? Really??? with that behavior he is displaying loyalty? Ho Ho Ho. I too see pink elephants.

If he wanted to quit why did he beg the boys for the Dallas-New Orleans "Please give me another chance" tour???

If he wanted to quit, why is he calling from Paris and suggesting that he felt better and was ready to come back and perform again???

He wanted to quit like Aunt Jamima doesn't like pancakes. He Loved the spotlight. Likke crownd clapping, in drunken blear did not give him the satisfaction, the power, the sense of being that center stage in the beams of 4 super troupers did, having the sudience scream and roar approval at his every utterance.

No 10 or 15 drug soaked, wine sodden sycophants just did not cut the cake like 8000 or so screaming fans.

He wanted to quit? That is plain myth. Burnt out - you are so right. May I ask, who lit the fire??

Tired - sure. Sick, Maybe. Weak- definitely. unproductive - absolutely. broke and possibly in debt - likely. But want to quit? You know what happend when you stop deficating?? There is a parallel to the answer of the former question.

Curtis (you must be special because I do not usually make a personal address) If you like that last album, my I recommend some good CD's of classic organ music. I think you wil find it mre enlightening and dynamic. Far more exciting.

You have made more than one post and I think you for being a loyal visitor. You and others make it worthwhile to recount sometimes painful memories and "Should Have Been's"
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Post by Rey »

Heya Vince,

Just wanted to thank you for taking the time to do this kind of stuff. I've hung on every word you've posted on this site so far because not only am I a longtime fan of the band, but I'm also chronically fascinated by the effects of media-vs-reality-vs-myth, and the Morrison Saga is definitely one of the best case studies for my fascination. Your stories are an immeasurable addition to Doors history!

Thanks aside, I have a question for you concerning New Orleans –

What was the mood of the band preceding the gig? Were there any premonitions of a new Jim disaster, or ill-will between the band and Jim, or a sense of dread concerning Jim’s performances… things of that sort? The reason I ask is because Ray, Robby, and John are always depicted (even by themselves!) as being somewhat oblivious and naïve concerning Jim’s downward spiral… did you see anything prior to New Orleans that indicated the band knew that Jim’s performing days were numbered?

Thanks again,

Rey
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Post by sunday trucker »

Hello Vince 8)

What about the story that Ray tells that you came onstage to take Jim on your arms? From Ray´s book (page 342):
He splintered the wood and shattered his soul. Vince Finally came out from behind the amps and put his hand on Jim´s shoulder. He imediately stopped. His rage dissipated with Vince´s conforting touch. He put his arm around Vince´s shoulder and just stood there, at the mic, looking out at the audience as we finished the final chorus of The End. We would never play that song with Jim Morrison ever again.

I think I´ve heard that story from others too, instead of walking out the stage, he was carried away by you.

Thanks,
Daniel
"It doesn?t matter, Ray!"
- Vince Treanor (1968)

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Post by Chris M »

A follow up question for Vince...

Do you recall anything about the onstage jam with the group Kansas in New Orleans? One of the members of Kansas recalls the jam fondly and said Jim was a gentleman and it was one of the highlights of his musical carrer. For what it's worth he didn't mention any unusual events taking place during the show..

In their recollections of the show both Ray and John mention that Jim "wasn't even drunk" at New Orleans. They did say that his performance was (I'm paraphrasing) unenthusiastic and lethargic..
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Post by Chris M »

Bump.
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The premonitions of the group

Post by vince »

Rey wrote:Heya Vince,

Just wanted to thank you for taking the time to do this kind of stuff. I've hung on every word you've posted on this site so far because not only am I a longtime fan of the band, but I'm also chronically fascinated by the effects of media-vs-reality-vs-myth, and the Morrison Saga is definitely one of the best case studies for my fascination. Your stories are an immeasurable addition to Doors history!


As most of you know, New Orleans and Dallas were performances arranged by Bill Siddons after a long and painful meeting of Bill, the Boys and possibly others. Ray, John and Robbie had made the decision not to perform in public, at least not in a large format setting, following Isle of Wright.

Jim pleaded his case about the stress of the upcoming trial, fights with Pam and many other excuses for his lethargic, most unprofessional behavior at that Festival.

He promised that things would be different. He would be the "Old" Jim, No drinking, no bad acting, and singing a bunch of good songs.

With that promise in hand the guys agreed and Bill went ahead with the bookings.

Did they have trepidation - You bet. They knew Jim's promises were about effective as a fart in a windstorm. They were hopeful that things would go well. With these two performances, assuming Jim kept his promise, they would have greater inspiration to set up a post christmas tour. If he failed the test, that would be it.

So they hoped for the best and were worried about the worst. They got a 50% split. They also kept their part of that bargain. If the performances were not good, they would not perform with him again.

The rest is history. :(


Thanks aside, I have a question for you concerning New Orleans –

What was the mood of the band preceding the gig? Were there any premonitions of a new Jim disaster, or ill-will between the band and Jim, or a sense of dread concerning Jim’s performances… things of that sort? The reason I ask is because Ray, Robby, and John are always depicted (even by themselves!) as being somewhat oblivious and naïve concerning Jim’s downward spiral… did you see anything prior to New Orleans that indicated the band knew that Jim’s performing days were numbered?

Thanks again,

Rey
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The fantasy of New Orleans

Post by vince »

sunday trucker wrote:Hello Vince 8)

What about the story that Ray tells that you came onstage to take Jim on your arms? From Ray´s book (page 342):
He splintered the wood and shattered his soul. Vince Finally came out from behind the amps and put his hand on Jim´s shoulder. He imediately stopped. His rage dissipated with Vince´s conforting touch. He put his arm around Vince´s shoulder and just stood there, at the mic, looking out at the audience as we finished the final chorus of The End. We would never play that song with Jim Morrison ever again.

I think I´ve heard that story from others too, instead of walking out the stage, he was carried away by you.

Thanks,
Daniel
Well, It does make a nice story. Sort of Romanitc would you say? The famous Road Manager and the Famous singer go off stage and fade into the vanishing sounds of the Doors last performance wafting it's way across the Universe into limitless reaches of space. Boy I can just see it now. If I hurry, I might catch up and hear it all again.

How could he smash the mike stand and stand starig at the mike?

The fact was as I gave it. the "Other" reports you heard were based more on Ray's version of heroics rather than the frightening dullness of reality.

With the smashing of the stage, he was finished. We all knew he did this to distract from forgetting the lyrics. I was really upset at seeing my mike stand demolished. I was in no mood to be tender and escorting him offstage. Besides, I had never done this befoe.

I think Ray for the credits but to you guys, I have to admit the truth - It did not happen as described. Mind you, and I mean this sincerely, Had Jim collapsed, stumbled or fallen, I would have rushed to his aid and done anything and everything possible to aid his stress. He went off under his own motivation and needed no one to assist.

Thanky ou. I hope that has answered your query
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Post by thedoorsbootlegs »

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Post by LizardMojoRisin »

Huh? new orleans? cd? ...No Way
:lol:
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Post by vince »

Oh Dear - Here we go:

I don't think I can make any statement real, more accurate, more sincere than my initial comment far above this one. Please, I implore any of you with questions about that horrible experience to refer to it.

Let me make clear - I did not go out and put my arms around anyone. I find that current trend most repulsive. Whatever happened to the honest hand-shake and polite greetings or closing statements to the male friends and associated, and a courteous bow and polite words to the ladies. Was I brought up with the wrong set of manners? I did not move from my position at stage left until after Ray, John and Robby had left. After all, they were the performers.

Regards all other events - Jim appologised to the Doors BEFORE New Orleans and Texas. This was a result of his dishrag performance at the Isle of Wright. They decided then that they would not perform live with him again. It was in the meetings following their return to LA that Jim was contrite and appologetic and begged for one last chance - Which he failed to uphold his promise.

Following this debacle, the guys decided that they had enough of both the bad performances and promises that Jim could not, or would not keep. They planned, in secret, to form a new band - Other VOices, and continue their careers as a new group. This wasplanned ONLY after New Orleans convenced them that stage performances were fatal.

The planning went on through the recording of LA Woman. When Jim left for Paris things went on stage. I was asked to stand in and set up in a theater while the got the final stages of performances organized. Bruce also rehearsed the miking set-up and recording of the stage performance and got his equipment ready for the road.

We went on the road for a series of performances which were about half original Doors music and the remainder was the new material which had been written, rehearsed and "Closed Performed". It was disappointing to me because it lacked the content and mystique of the original Doors sound and music. This was also reflected in Audience reaction. As you guys likely know, the Tour in 1972 was finally cancelled owing to lack of ticket sales. The Doors had, indeed, closed. I feel strongly that this was a result of the insistance by Ray that they move into the Blues style music. This has a limited audience and, as history proved, was not welcomed by those who purchased tickets. They wanted The Door - not The New Blues Band. Did they have to change - Absolutely not. I refer you to Amsterdam where 3 guys went in stage and blew the Doors of the concertgebau (Pun intended).

If you read all the accounts of several converts and recording events, you see a trend. Jim was falling into an abyss. The same one that most people who have addiction problems have. Nothing strange or unusual. He was walking the walk. It had nothing to do with poor unrecognized Jim - the worlds greates poet (Where was Robert Frost?) or his being tired of performing. Let's stop with the excuses and rational - He was a drunk, a luch, and alcoholic and he succummed to this sad affliction as so many other did. The more he drank the worse he got. The worse he got the more he drank. Vicious cycle. Tragic pprogression and a sad but needless loss.

People - Jim is dead. It happened a long time ago. SO much has been said and written. I have given my views and observations from the site as it happened. I think - yes you could argue - I have tried to be objective. No one can say they "Knew Jim". I think Frank Lisciandro was quite close to him from 1968 on. I think Ray was close before that time. After all, Jim did spend time living with Ray and Dorothy for quite a while.

Ray, however, was clearly demonstrated his emotional attachment with Jim and I feel this has clouded many of his observations and conclusions. Certainly he embellished the New Orleans event. He did speak not a aword, nor did Robbie, when leaving the stage. John was in a fit of anger and who could blame him for that?

If you accumulate and assimilate my commentary on this tragic performance I think you will gather the details. The results were predicted before they left LA for Dallas. Jim knew the results of failure and he deliberately dared them to do it. He went to Paris to lick his wounds, knowing full well that, as a stage performer, he was finished with that group. What future did he have? None. He was without an excess of funds as a result of profligate spending on "Highway" - another failure, and his excesses with his "Wife". There were a lot of legal fees to be paid as well. Remember that he had an appeal pending for the Miami conviction.

Enough said. This topic has been gone over with great detail and many observations and opinions. Speculation over what happened is futile - It happened and it was, indeed, The End.

Vince
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Post by djmartins »

vince wrote:Enough said. This topic has been gone over with great detail and many observations and opinions. Speculation over what happened is futile - It happened and it was, indeed, The End.
I thank you for taking the time to share with us your stories of your time with the band.
In the Doors world you are a breath of fresh air.
Straightforward, honest, non-sensational, and rational.
Wish you the best and hope you can stay warm in Korea.
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Post by Buda »

I can just repeat djmartins' words. Hats off Vince and thanks for all your efforts providing us these highly precious background information.
"Because when the crowds finally begin to accept you
you become the suspect of your artistry" Buk
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Post by Silver Forest »

Yes, Vince be sure your partipation here in this forum is extremely appreciated.

Your memories and thoughts are valuable to us since you participated or watched many events that have been incorrectly described or mistified over the years.

I hope in these last days of the year I would have time to write some questions I have. I would very much appreciate and thank your answers :)

There are some people that I love to listen while talking about the band: you, Jac Holzman, Frank Lisciandro and John Densmore. Alll different personalities but with interesting perspectives over the band.
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Post by vince »

Glad to answer your questions as best I can.
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Post by Buda »

Vince, thanks you for your pm! Please, if time lets you, check the very first post of this thread on the following link! Thanks very much!

http://www.thefreedomman.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3716
"Because when the crowds finally begin to accept you
you become the suspect of your artistry" Buk
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Post by Silver Forest »

Vince,
you probably didn't noticed this fresh news about the tape from New Orleans, 1970 show.

http://www.thefreedomman.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4814
Porsche wrote:Courtesy of George Friedman:

...
Image
Image
...

The photos of the allegged tape recording of this show were made available and surprisingly it seems after all it was a very long show. Does your memory gets some help from the above setlist? Do you confirm this show as being such a long one? And apparently if Jim collapsed during Light my fire, the boys returned since there are some more songs after.

Thanks for any answer to these questions.
Last edited by Silver Forest on Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by vince »

Hey guys. I did receive some diate referrinf to CD's from New Orleans. Interesting. there was also a "Set" or "Play" list. It seems to me that this is very long for the time we were actually on stage. Of course, no one was watching the clock or counting how many pieces there were playing. One thing is sure Light My Fire/2 was the end of the show. Jim did smash the mike stand through the stage, I did not go out to comfort him nor did I escort him off stage, standing or in my arms.

That this performance was recorded has been the topic of discussion for some time. I still wonder, when seeing the number of pieces of the CD, whether it is real or not. It has been 40 years since that sad event and memory grows dim. In fact I remember little about that show except the last 10 minutes. Also that Jim was, despite all his promises, very drunk.

If anyone has questions don't hesitate to write. Answering your messages keeps me alive. If oyu want your grandkids to be able to talk to the last of the Doors Crew, you better write often.

I hope you all have a nice Easter and the shades of Winter soon let go of the northern part of the world.
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Post by Silver Forest »

Thanks Vince, and first of all I would like to wish you a nice Easter time too.

You are the only one in this forum that have been there so we must listen to you first.

Other reports say that Light my fire took ages and it was basically an intrumental one. Excuse me for these the questions since we are trying to find how credible is this tape.

Is it possible that your memory might fail in this particular detail of the final song as being Light my fire or there was this possibility of being The end?

After crashing the mic stand in the stage and the other 3 boys left stage did they returned and finish the show with more songs?

Was this show basically an intrumetal one with poor and intermitent Jim singing? Can we have Boston '70 shows as a comparison? Was it even worse?

Here's a drunk "Break on through" from Boston '70
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpVSLnAZw04

Thanks!
Last edited by Silver Forest on Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by miltonjumbee »

Hi Vince,
Thank you again for your informations :D !!!
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Post by ManzaRek »

Thanks a lot Vince for your Kind reply :D
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Post by manuel08 »

i read other your comments when you said that jd did not kick morrison, actually there is also this 91 quote from"Break on through" (Riordan and Prochnicky - 1991), at page 438 -Vince Treanor describes the last song Jim Morrison ever sang onstage: "It was Light My Fire. [...] They went through the cycle two or three times, but Jim would never come back in and they kept having to solo again.finally john kicked jim in the back, poked him with his foot and jim got up and went over the microphone and wen 'yeah..yeah' into the mike" -just let you know. so a Riordan and Prochnicky's misunderstanding also here?
http://www.thefreedomman.com/forum/view ... c&start=30
btw the thread link above has information that should be here
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Silver Forest
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Post by Silver Forest »

Manuel, I'm sure given the trashy book you mention and given what we listen from John and from Vince that this story of John kicking Jim is a lie. john was emotional and he was angry for Jim's negative attitude towards the band and self-destruction but I don't see him kicking Jim. No way. These people should be prossecuted for these lies. Never bought that book and never will.
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