Pamela Courson

[daintyhippie]

What do you think about Pamela Courson? Do you really think Jim was going to leave her? I heard that Jim was going to marry her in Paris. What is your opinion about her and Patricia Kenneally? I personally think she is lying about everything.

[wha happened]

*note the following was from the posts were deleted in the recent meltdown


vince

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject: The fallen women

Pamela got her hooks onto Jim. He supported her every whim and wasted tens of thousands fo $$ stockig and financing her botique. She held court there rarely selling things, more like giving them away. All in all that enterprise was a looser an finally, on the advice of Bob Greene, was closed.

Pam was a severely addicted user of heroine. She was flighty, gushy and really unfocussed. She and Jim aften fought. From what little I saw of them together, I often wondered what Jim found attractive about her. He was not openly affectionate and often seemed as though she was more of an annoyance than a partner. He never did marry her. At best she was a common law "Wife". That is a legal status if certain criterior are met.

Jim was her meal ticket. She was Jim's partner of convenience. One must consider that Jim's approach to certain intimate activities were not exactly orthodox. He preference was anything but the "Missionary Position" - Mandated by law in certain states, by the way - thanks to the vicious wrong.

She had no sense of responsibility. Everythig was a party - A feast of friends. The diet was usually stange chemicals. Was he close to her. I think she was convenient. She gave him respectibility but show was somehwat of an annoyance. I do not think that many of his friends tolerated here - Probably the liability of being in the presence of a person who carried illegal drugs and the drawback of being with a person under the influence of a heavy depressant

As opposed to that "Other Woman" People can claim anything as far as status with a dead person. Her claims are not backed by any DNA testing as far as I know. There is, as you may know, a fellow running around perported to be Jim's only child.

His talent is not what one would all much more than amateurish and the attempt at composition is a not too well veiled imitation.
I am certain there are toher women of the night out there who are making similar claims. Kneeley has made the most noise and is the most noteable as a result.

Like you, the whole thing is a bad joke and for Pam, something Jim got into, like quicksand, and could not get out of.
_________________
Vince
Road Manager
The Doors

daintyhippie
Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 4:30 pm Post subject:

Do you think Jim loved her (Pamela Courson)?

vince
Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:53 pm Post subject: Frankly, Pamela, I don't give a damn

Now kneel down any swing your hip...

Pam was basically a groupie who would allow Jim to do about anything he wanted to - and that was plenty. In exchange for that he supported her habit, her whims and her lifestyle, which proved to be extremely expensive.

There is only one person that Jim loved. It ws a boy - well a boy in man's clothing, If I tell you his name you must promise never to reveal it on the web or in a forum or anything like that.

Do you

Agree?

Disagree.




If you agree you may read on.

His secret Lover was....

Are you sure you will not tell anyone?

Ok














It was Jim Morrison. (Shhh, Don't tell)

Vince
Road Manager
The Doors

daintyhippie
Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:39 pm Post subject:

If Pam meant so little to Jim why do you think he left Pam his entire estate?

vince
Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:51 pm Post subject:

Jim, when he made his will, did not have much estate. The lawyers fees for Miami were enormous and the appeals were costing more. He drained his fids with that foolish movie Highway. The only income was from recod sales and, after miami, that income was severale reduced.

Jim had no one but his family to leave what would be considered as an estate. He was told by Abe Summers that he had better make a will or the State of California would get the proceedsif he died.

He hadbeen hangin around with Pam for some time and Ihave provided reason enough for him to pick her. Remember that she never meant enough for him to marry her.

They fought like cats and dogs and that was well known. She was temeramental at best and her habit made heralmost mannic depressive. She was morrisons pincushon and there were few who would tolerate his style of physical sport.In the end, Jim loved his boyfriend more than anyone else.
_________________
Vince
Road Manager
The Doors

[Hyacinth]

Finally, the truth about Courson. I've heard the same thing from people who met her and knew Jim. A self-confident woman wouldn't put up with Morrison's guff and abuse. Yeah, she was a money grubber and a hard little cookie under that sweet California Girl facade. The stories about Jim and Pam's love affair are laughable and fictitious.

Hooray for Vince and the truth finally!

[vince]

Pam was not really a money grubber. Jim paid for her habit because when she was "Relaxed" she stopped whiming and argueing. Unless she had a "Party" of more than just her, she was fairly submissive to Jim's every wish.

She was devoted to Jim - no one else of her "Friends" had the wherewithall to provide her with suitable accomodations. So she clung to Jim and in return shared in his enthusiasm for gymnastics.

A strong minded woman she was indeed. Absolutely nothing could divert her from her instaiable appetite for Heroine, good times, chats with friends, and giving out gifts in clothing and furs from the stock in her store. Excellent business sense, She knew that by giving out these gifts she would reduce inventory, this reducing the tax, also she would assure the return on more friends to help reducing the stock even more. Now that is called a loss leader.

She did love Jim. She loved every gift of stock for her store, money for drugs, trips to many places. and she loved to cheat on him. Truely the best sort of mate.

[vince]

I think that the only reason Jim left his "Estate" to Pam was so neither the State of California would get it - which it would if he died intestate, or to prevent it from going to his perents.

Remember that Jim denied his parents. They did not deny him. It was likely that his attitude toward his family that made them more than reluctant to attend his funeral - which was sudden in any case - or to visit his grave until many years had passed.

All those who knew Jim and Pam and were fully aware of the situation and relationship that existed between them, will attend that Jim allowed Pan to be around him because she gratified his physical extremes. She clung to him as a result of his largess.

In any case this is a never ending debate and is tiresome.

[JLizard]

Hey Vince,
Out of the blue I got a flyer that the author of Angels Dance, Angels Die Patricia Butler was going to be at a booksigning so I went. This was about 1999 I guess. I thought that our personalities would clash. She seemed like a quiet person who was trying to have an image of a streetwise person. But anyway, when she told her story of Jim and Pam, and I sure don't remember the details, but it really made me feel like I was in the 70s and like Jim was with us.
Have you read this old book and what do you think? I'm just asking intitial impression. I'm going to go reread my autographed copy and try to come up with some more indepth questions. If that's ok.

[vince]

Evidently, Windchime, you are not aware of the tens of thousands of cases where women or men who are victims of an abusing partner, do not leave them, rather sling to them, forgiving the abuse, rationalizing the situation, constantly professing their "Love" for the abusive partner and defending the abuse as a display of affection, though misguided.

Some of these people, dispite an escalating of the violence, continue to endure the relationship even to the point of being killed as a result of the final bout of violence.

I suppose that all the these fall into the same catagory as Pan and Jim, exhibitons of true love "Til death so us part (Or hospital, which ever come first).

Love, regardless of any rational, does not involve violence, arguements and substance abuse. No will, no poems, nothing can cover the facts that abusive people do stay together, That, though one of these partners may indeed exhibit or claim the "Love" is the factor keeping them with the abusive mate, in fact dependancy, fear, finance and a disfunctional personality are the real factors behind the continuation of the relationship.

All the romantic fairy tales cannot and should not minimize the facts of that relationship and the phychological factors that govern such pairing.

Stop the romantics and start with reality. They were a pair of mentally, is not physically, abused people who shared their suffering by taking it out on each other. I notice that it is only Women who find romance in this utterly empty association. I wonder why?

Is there a coach outside the Door? Did you lose your slipper at the ball?

[JLizard]

Vince, can you please comment on Patricia Butler's painstaking book ANGELS DANCE ANGELS DIE. As I have said, I have met Patricia Butler and would greatly appreciate your thoughts on the matter.
From what I remember, Patricia told me that she was hiding in an empty tomb at night as guards drove by through the cemetary in Paris. Paticia wasn't the biggest of DOORS fans at the time, but was overcome by a spiritual feeling that there was something truly remarkable about Jim Morrison.
For the next few years, Patricia researched her pioneering book on Pam Courson, Jim's wife. Patricia used the literature available to her, but directly interviewed whoever she could as well. Including Ray Manzarek and Danny Sugarman.
Then the book came out. I'm telling you, she could make you want to not believe a word she's saying in one breath and then make you buy her dinner at a 5 star restaurant the next. Just the way Patricia struck me. Maybe that's why she's heavy set, hee hee. But it is a serious work, Vince, and I hear Patricia is accused of misappropriating funds, so I'd like your initial impression of this situation.
Something that is very important to me these days is ATTACHMENT spirits. As we know, when you take mind altering chemicals, many times spirits, especially "attachment" spirits can enter and take over the person. These spirits bring one into depression, self abuse, and eventually take over the host- all for the sake of Control. This seems to be the real story of a lot what went on then. But I wasn't there, so I don't know. But you were though Vince. And you're still not charging us for this wonderful information. SO TELL US!!!

[vince]

I have read no book about Pam. I really don't have the time. First, it has been over for a long time. Pam is now dead leaving her parents to wonder how, why and where things got out of control. They are the ones suffering from the loss of a daughter, regardless of how misguided he was, she - and they - are human and the lost of one such is a tragedy.

The second reason is that Pan was a completely disfunction drug addict, masochistic and possible, by today's standards, a stalker. I am not certain how reading stories, regardless of how well defined or accurate they are, about such a person will improve my position. There are so many wonderful books by some of the worlds most famous authors that I have not read, it is a waste of time to read about Pam. She contributed absolutely nothing to society, her family, or anything else, except to line the pockets of her suppliers. Jim was in a sad state as well but at least we have his legacy and some excuse for persueing his story.

Have you noticed that most of the "Authorities" on rock and movie personalities are overweight and unattractive women with long straight hair?

[windchime]

I have read no book about Pam. I really don't have the time. First, it has been over for a long time. Pam is now dead leaving her parents to wonder how, why and where things got out of control. They are the ones suffering from the loss of a daughter, regardless of how misguided he was, she - and they - are human and the lost of one such is a tragedy.

The second reason is that Pan was a completely disfunction drug addict, masochistic and possible, by today's standards, a stalker. I am not certain how reading stories, regardless of how well defined or accurate they are, about such a person will improve my position. There are so many wonderful books by some of the worlds most famous authors that I have not read, it is a waste of time to read about Pam. She contributed absolutely nothing to society, her family, or anything else, except to line the pockets of her suppliers. Jim was in a sad state as well but at least we have his legacy and some excuse for persueing his story.

Have you noticed that most of the "Authorities" on rock and movie personalities are overweight and unattractive women with long straight hair?

I was not aware that you knew Pamela Courson's family??? Elaborate please.

Thanks~

[vince]

I know of her family only by information I have received from other people and some written materials in this and other sites or through links.

I cannot make claim to aquaintenance or meeting. Again. There is no need. I had no direct relation with Pan except the most casual conversations when she came to the office looking for Jim or to see - rarely - the work Frank was doing on Jim's movie.

Please do remember that I did not involve myself in the personal lives of any of the members of the Doors. I knew each of the "Girl Friends" and attended mariages but the social side of the Boys were private, not my affair and I did not seek information.

[windchime]

I know of her family only by information I have received from other people and some written materials in this and other sites or through links.

I cannot make claim to aquaintenance or meeting. Again. There is no need. I had no direct relation with Pan except the most casual conversations when she came to the office looking for Jim or to see - rarely - the work Frank was doing on Jim's movie.

Please do remember that I did not involve myself in the personal lives of any of the members of the Doors. I knew each of the "Girl Friends" and attended mariages but the social side of the Boys were private, not my affair and I did not seek information.

Oh Vince, I asked this because of the quite crude remarks about her (Pam) never offering any anything to society, her "FAMILY", and so on...

My point in asking should be rather clear as you did not know her. Also, her family was feircly protective of her and still are to this day. Also, I doubt Pam was an addict her whole life and in spite of it, I am sure her family loved her. I judt find your comments about her quite presumptuious.

I must say I also find it interesting that you have no porblem insulting me and not even having hte decency to apologize for it. I did indicate in a post before this one that I was offended by your comments and assumptions about me. I think perhaps you might step back ad realize it is not right tomake assumptions about people you do not even know.


This comment below by you is YOUR opinion based on what you THINK you know. Even if you do know some about Pam, not right to speak so ill of the dead. Also, Jim was no prize either, so I guess perhaps they deserved each other. You just seem to have very strong opinions about people you don't know, including me. Problem I have is, you don't take personal responsibilty when someone tells you they are offended, you simply brush it off. Say a lot about you.


"She contributed absolutely nothing to society, her family, or anything else, except to line the pockets of her suppliers."

[JLizard]

Just because a woman is overweight and unattractive does not make her an authority on the subject of the greatest musical art form ever created :!: Your true authority also wears dark rimmed glasses, has greasy hair, and likes to have a beer every once in a while conducting phone interviews in her underwear. I think that song "If You're Going to San Francisco" was to get the heavier woman to put flowers in their hair so the hippies would know they were not reporters.

[vince]

Well, OK - Perhaps I stand corrected.

Here we are - the whole Forum is waiting to hear when Pan began substance abuse, and under what circumstances and influence, what were her most important contributions to mankind, well Los Angeles received what benefit from he existance, what financial contributions she made to support herself and Jim. Tell us all about her "functional" side

Poems or music or stories she wrote... Works of art? perhaps charitable work with kids, elderly or handicapped people. Public performance of music with a high school band, orchestra.

Something aside from shooting up at a Doors recording session, giving away the expensive furs Jim paid for, Any trip she and Jim took where she contributed financially.

From your first posting, this is a matter of record, you have taken exception to almost anything I have said. Now it is your turn to provide all the positives that will elevate Pam to better than groupie status.

We are all breathlessly awaiting your detailed and lengthy reply. Then, the appologies will be forthcoming.

I insulted you.

Please post my insult for the entire world to see. You love to put words into my mouth and I just wish you would stop. I am really tired of you telling me what I say and what I mean by what I say.

Remember, you do not know me and I have been around for a lot longer than you have.

I may not know Pam intimately but I surely know what she did and when she did it. She was the talk fo the office and it came from some eyswitness reports. When were you there???

Aside from alcohol, she was probably the worst influence on Jim's stability - and a lot more people than I say that. Miami is directly attributable to Pam.

I say again and dare you to refute it - She never did anything constructive in her entire time with Jim.

If you don't like my posts, please read and don't reply. Then we will be spared the exercise of correcting your quotes taken out of context and twisted by your interpretations.

[nephron]

lol! This shit's getting good.

One thing to ponder is the lack of Pam's presence at the Miami trial...????
My God, if there's anytime Jim needed someone to be at his side, that would be it. Where was she? Wasn't she in France sharing needles and bodily fluids nos with the Count (could have used a nasty play on words there, eh?).

That single event says it all. It says likewise that not only did Pam have no interest in sticking with things 'thick and thin', so they say, but that she was of no use to him in that way. Jim's just as at fault for keeping her after something like that. Pretty disgusting, really.

[cary]

Windchime/daintyhippie/whatever, you keep on telling Vince that "nobody
knows what they had together" yet you keep insisting that you know.
You even made a list of reasons to support what you are saying.
Why on earth do you think this man owes you anything? You are
the one that asked for his opinion and then told him he doesn't know
what he's talking about.....over and over and over again. Your like
a booger that you can't shake off your finger. The only reason I find
this woman interesting is because it is possible that she is directly
responsible for Jim's death. The question is did she or didn't she
'trick' him into indulging in heroine by telling him it was coke?
If she did that she should have went to jail for murder.
Whats this about Pam being almost fluent in French??? Never
heard that one before.....why couldn't she call the medics herself
when Jim was dead or dying in the tub, where most probably she and
the count dumped him after he od'ed.
Does anyone remember the mention of a red mark on Jim's chest?
I think Pam herself mentioned it. Now, anybody seen the movie
Pulp Fiction, the scene where Uma Thurman od's on heroine
thinking it is coke and they revive her by an injection directly into
the heart? hummmmm wonder what inspired that scene?

[vince]

Cary:

I think you put into words my thoughts but a bit more directly. Peeps of the Forum. All questions from anyone are welcome. Even differences of opinion.

But yes, when you ask a question and get a reasonable answer - unless I am grossly wrong, let's not argue.

Thanks Cary - Keep positing - that is what makes this work.

[windchime]

Well, OK - Perhaps I stand corrected.

Here we are - the whole Forum is waiting to hear when Pan began substance abuse, and under what circumstances and influence, what were her most important contributions to mankind, well Los Angeles received what benefit from he existance, what financial contributions she made to support herself and Jim. Tell us all about her "functional" side

Peoms or music or stories she wrote... Works of art? Berhaps charitable work with kids, elderly or handicaped people. Public performance of music with a high school band, orchestra.

Something aside from shooting up at a Doors recording session, giving away the expensive furs Jim paid for, Any trip she and Jim took where she contributed financially.

From your first posting, this is a matter of record, you have taken exception to almost anything I have said. Now it is your turn to provide all the positives that will elevate Pam to better than groupie status.

We are all breathlessly awaiting your detailed and lengthy reply. Then, the appologies will be forthcoming.

I insulted you.

Please post my insult for the entire world to see. You love to put words into my mouth and I just wish you would stop. I am really tired of you telling me what I say and what I mean by what I say.

Remember, you do not know me and I have been around for a lot longer than you have.

I may not know Pam intimately but I surely know what she did and when she did it. She was the talk fo the office and it came from some syswitness reports. When were you there???

Aside from alcohol, she was probably the worst influence on Jim's stability - and a lot more people than I say that. Miami is directly attributable to Pam.

I say again and dare you to refute it - She never did anything constructinve in her entire time with Jim.

If you don't like my posts, please read and don't reply. Then we will be spared the exercise of correcting your quotes taken out of context and twisted by your interpretations.

Vince,

Bottom line, you did not know her and she is long dead!! She made mistakes in her life as well all do. She had a very bad drug addiction which we ALL know, but that does not make her a bad person, just troubled. I was not there, but neither were you!!! I doubt you saw her booting heroin in her arm, moreover heard about it. Also, Jim was his OWN WORST ENEMY and a lot of what happened (including his own deminse) was of his own doing more likely than not. Pam did not have a damn thing to do with Jim "allegedly" whipping his cock out on stage, that was ALL JIM IN A DRUNKEN STUPER! Amazing how you seem to bust on us other 'FANATICS' as you have labeled us, but you protect Jim and his horrific behavior, but crucify Pam for hers??

I have said over and over they both had problems and addictions. I have also said that no one (including me) knows what two people have and what goes on behind closed doors, that is just fact. That is not about Jim and Pam, I am married as well for crying out loud!! Pam was by many accounts an airhead and flighty so I am not trying to make an angel of her. However Jim was not an angel either and obviously they saw something in each other. I also said that it may have been their addictions that kept them together, no one will ever know.

As for Pam being a bad influence on Jim, I would not know about that. Long before he ever moved from Florida (where I live) to California, he was trouble. He loved the women and the drinking. Could Pam have made it worse, who knows?? It has been said that the death of Jimi Hendrix pushed him over the edge. It has been said (by many) that the trial in Miami lead to a breakdown and perhaps his heavier drinking in his 3 months in Paris that ultimately killed him. It has been suggested that Pam gave him heroin and he did not know what it was?? These are all questions with NO ANSWERS really. This seems to be a very touchy subject for you and I am willing to let it go. It is very easy for me as I know that I will NEVER know what went on and it doesn't really matter now. In addition, I have lost so many people in my life, I do not like it when people speak ill of the dead, so truce??

Take care~



PS. cary, I would never tell Vince he does not know what he is talking about. I was not there, but this was a private relationship and both of these people are long gone now. I also do not presume to know what they had, no one does and that is my point. Also, do some research on Jim's quiet days in Paris and you will read by those that knew them best that Pam was almost fluent and Jim never learned the language (although he lived only 3 months after moving there). As for her not calling the medics, have you ever found someone dead??? It is well known and documented that there were also drugs in the apartment that needed to be hidden (same with Jimi Hendrix death). I don't really get your comments on the movie Pulp Fiction as it is only a movie, lol. As for marks on Jim's chest, there was no autopsy and unless you can read french as it is typed in French (or know someone who does), I was not aware of this. However it was well documented he was having severe chest pains and he did bleed from the mouth, not to mention being in a warm bath. Who knows where this "alleged" red mark came from. Anyway, I am not bashing Vince, actually trying to make peace.

BTW, love the "booger" analagy, very mature.*wink*

Take care love~

[windchime]

lol! This shit's getting good.

One thing to ponder is the lack of Pam's presence at the Miami trial...????
My God, if there's anytime Jim needed someone to be at his side, that would be it. Where was she? Wasn't she in France sharing needles and bodily fluids nos with the Count (could have used a nasty play on words there, eh?).

That single event says it all. It says likewise that not only did Pam have no interest in sticking with things 'thick and thin', so they say, but that she was of no use to him in that way. Jim's just as at fault for keeping her after something like that. Pretty disgusting, really.

She was in Paris at the time and you are probably right, having a big freakin' party. However I did hear that Jim did NOT want her in the court at all!! He did not want Kenneally there either, but she was truly a groupie and I read her book a bit of a freak in her own right. Actually, Jim did not want anyone in the courtroom with him other than his lawyers. I do know that it was probably the beginning of the end for him, very traumatic event in his life.

Sad:-(

[nephron]

windchime, if you think Treanor has EVER defended Jim, in this place, for his behavior, you've missed that so-called 2nd train to New York.

[cary]

http://archives.waiting-forthe-sun.net/ ... _days.html

Windchime, ever read this? if the link doesn't work google
"Jim and I friends Until death".

Interesting, but I'm a skeptic so I wouldn't take anything I read
as gospel. Keep in mind if a crime was committed
Mr. Ronay would more than likely have been considered an accomplice.
He is not going to admit to anything that could implicate himself.

Also, the full police report Pam gave (Ronay translated) to police
is out there on the internet. (in English)


I believe Mr. Manzarek hit the nail on the head with the quote below.
I must admit, although I have never considered myself a "fanatic",
I can't resist reading anything pertaining to the mystery behind
Jims death. Does that make me a fanatic? I am female afterall BUT
I HAVE been accused of being a "truthseeker" so lets just go with that Ok? lol
Take care all.


RAY MANZAREK: We don’t know what happened to Jim Morrison in Paris. To be honest, I don’t think we’re every going to know. Rumors, innuendos, self-serving lies, psychic projections to justify inner needs and maladies, and just plain goofiness cloud the truth. There are too many conflicting theories. PG. 1 LIGHT MY FIRE

[windchime]

http://archives.waiting-forthe-sun.net/ ... _days.html

Windchime, ever read this? if the link doesn't work google
"Jim and I friends Until death".

Interesting, but I'm a skeptic so I wouldn't take anything I read
as gospel. Keep in mind if a crime was committed
Mr. Ronay would more than likely have been considered an accomplice.
He is not going to admit to anything that could implicate himself.

Also, the full police report Pam gave (Ronay translated) to police
is out there on the internet. (in English)



I believe Mr. Manzarek hit the nail on the head with the quote below.
I must admit, although I have never considered myself a "fanatic",
I can't resist reading anything pertaining to the mystery behind
Jims death. Does that make me a fanatic? I am female afterall BUT
I HAVE been accused of being a "truthseeker" so lets just go with that Ok? lol
Take care all.


RAY MANZAREK: We don’t know what happened to Jim Morrison in Paris. To be honest, I don’t think we’re every going to know. Rumors, innuendos, self-serving lies, psychic projections to justify inner needs and maladies, and just plain goofiness cloud the truth. There are too many conflicting theories. PG. 1 LIGHT MY FIRE

Thanks cary, intersting read. However Aalin Ronay left out many events?? This is something I found a long tme ago and is based on interiews with people that were there, and even before Jim left for Paris. I have read it before, but it was some time ago. I have re-read it and it is a very revealing look into him time in Paris. Alain does contradict himself in saying that Jim had all but stopped drinking sa he clearly by all accounts had not. Also, he did not even mention that Marianne Faithful was there (she denies it, but als denied being there when Jimi hendrix died I believe?) Anyway, enjoy!!

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Pa ... ietday.htm

[windchime]

lol! This shit's getting good.

One thing to ponder is the lack of Pam's presence at the Miami trial...????
My God, if there's anytime Jim needed someone to be at his side, that would be it. Where was she? Wasn't she in France sharing needles and bodily fluids nos with the Count (could have used a nasty play on words there, eh?).

That single event says it all. It says likewise that not only did Pam have no interest in sticking with things 'thick and thin', so they say, but that she was of no use to him in that way. Jim's just as at fault for keeping her after something like that. Pretty disgusting, really.

Hello,

Umm, to clear one thing up, none of the members of The Doors showed one ounce of support for Jim and did not attend any of the court proceedings. Pam was told not to! His father George Morrison was going to resign his post as Admiral due to the humiliation of the charges. Also, I am not saying that Vince defends Jim for his drinking and drugging, but he does not use the same attack commentary and does not look his nose down at him for it as he does Pam (in any way). I realize they were freinds, but he was also an addict just like Pam. So worry not love, I made he train. *wink*

[Hamlet]

You know what Vince, I find this blabber of your quite offensive!! You do not know one thing about me or what I have endured and seen in my life, so again you are making ASSumptions with NO facts to back them up!! You have no idea what I have endured in my life (I am a victim of an abusive relationship myself in my past) and I am also aware of the MILLIONS of women as well as men that are abused and killed each year. I am not a moron!

Also, it is apparent that YOU have never been on the inside of this, because you can and do often still love the person abusing you (even if to those on the outside it seems insane). It is often about fear and low self-esteem. In addition, many people that are substance abusers (as Jim and Pam both were), that may be the ONLY thing that keeps them together. I guess my point is, I do not need a lesson fo you (or anyone else) in the psychology of an abusive relationship. That was not what my reply was about and again, you do not know me at all or anything about my life.

- It is highly embarrassing and offensive that you bring up your personal life in a debate. I mean, who gives a shit?

Vince´s take on Pamela rings true to me.

I think it is important to realise that Pam´s parents have control over Morrison´s work.

To the point that they werfe able to dictate, that Stone´s movie couldn´t implicate Pamela in Morrison´s death.

So, there is a lot of tip-toeing going on, when Pamela is debated in the Doors camp.

[windchime]

You know what Vince, I find this blabber of your quite offensive!! You do not know one thing about me or what I have endured and seen in my life, so again you are making ASSumptions with NO facts to back them up!! You have no idea what I have endured in my life (I am a victim of an abusive relationship myself in my past) and I am also aware of the MILLIONS of women as well as men that are abused and killed each year. I am not a moron!

Also, it is apparent that YOU have never been on the inside of this, because you can and do often still love the person abusing you (even if to those on the outside it seems insane). It is often about fear and low self-esteem. In addition, many people that are substance abusers (as Jim and Pam both were), that may be the ONLY thing that keeps them together. I guess my point is, I do not need a lesson fo you (or anyone else) in the psychology of an abusive relationship. That was not what my reply was about and again, you do not know me at all or anything about my life.

- It is highly embarrassing and offensive that you bring up your personal life in a debate. I mean, who gives a shit?

Vince´s take on Pamela rings true to me.

I think it is important to realise that Pam´s parents have control over Morrison´s work.

To the point that they werfe able to dictate, that Stone´s movie couldn´t implicate Pamela in Morrison´s death.

So, there is a lot of tip-toeing going on, when Pamela is debated in the Doors camp.

Hello Hamlet,

Why do you find it embarrasing or highly offensive that I speak the truth about myself?? I did so because assumptions were being made that I was unaware of abuse (drugs and otherwise) as well as comments about my youth in comparison to Vince. This was not just from this thread, but others as well. Having said that, I did write to Vince that is was obviously a touchy suject for him and I was willing to let it go and asked for a truce.

As for Pam, I am well aware of her problems as they are well documented. All I have been trying to get across is that no one really knows what goes on between two people in private. As for Vince's views on their realtionship, I believe he is entitled to them. I am just adverse to speaking ill of the dead, okay. As for Pam's parents, they asked Stone not to portray their daughter in a poor light and since she is their child and is dead, I do not think that was too much to ask. Obviously Stone was okay with it as the movie was not even about Pam, it was about The Doors, but her family did cooperate in the making of the movie. Having said that, most of that movie is pure BS anyway.

As for control over Morrison's work, Jim left everything to Pam. She died and now her parents along with Jim's parents have control over his estate, that was all Jim's doing. Have you not ever read his Last Will and Testament?? Nonetheless, it is all water under the bridge now and happened a long time ago. I have admitted over and over that Pam was troubled, but hello, she is DEAD!! I don't see the point in dragging her through the mud. She may have been all that Vince feels she was, but she was a human being. Take care and I apologize if you were offended or embarrassed by my post.

Peace~

[universalmind69]

Hello,

Umm, to clear one thing up, none of the members of The Doors showed one ounce of support for Jim and did not attend any of the court proceedings. Pam was told not to! His father George Morrison was going to resign his post as Admiral due to the humiliation of the charges. Also, I am not saying that Vince defends Jim for his drinking and drugging, but he does not use the same attack commentary and does not look his nose down at him for it as he does Pam (in any way). I realize they were freinds, but he was also an addict just like Pam. So worry not love, I made he train. *wink*

hah...WRONG!
Stop talking like you know any better than anyone on here...because you obviously don`t...
You really shouldn`t drag your personal life into this either, it has no relevance whatsoever.

Unless you were there, you have absolutely no presedence over someone who actually was, in this case: VINCENT TREANOR III was there...YOU were not...

[windchime]

Hello,

Umm, to clear one thing up, none of the members of The Doors showed one ounce of support for Jim and did not attend any of the court proceedings. Pam was told not to! His father George Morrison was going to resign his post as Admiral due to the humiliation of the charges. Also, I am not saying that Vince defends Jim for his drinking and drugging, but he does not use the same attack commentary and does not look his nose down at him for it as he does Pam (in any way). I realize they were freinds, but he was also an addict just like Pam. So worry not love, I made he train. *wink*

hah...WRONG!
Stop talking like you know any better than anyone on here...because you obviously don`t...
You really shouldn`t drag your personal life into this either, it has no relevance whatsoever.

Unless you were there, you have absolutely no presedence over someone who actually was, in this case: VINCENT TREANOR III was there...YOU were not...

May I ask why are you attacking me?? I do not think for one moment I know better than anyone else (least of all Vince). As for the Miami trial, these are direct quotes from John and Ray's respective books that none of them attended. If I am mistaken or they lied, please enlighten me. Also, I only mentioned it because someone said that Pam did not care about Jim because she was not there for the trial. Jim did not want her there (not that I blame him), he wanted her to set up house in Paris.

As for every aspect of The Doors personal lives, no one was there all of the time, not even Vince. I am not taking away from his personal relationship with all those in the group and those that surrounded them, but he is not a fly on the wall, he is a man.

As for the personal commentary, that is my right to speak MY truth as many have on this forum. If you find it irrelevent that is fine, but there is no need to be nasty. Have a wonderful day!

[nephron]

none of the members of The Doors showed one ounce of support for Jim and did not attend any of the court proceedings.

windchime,

I hate to pile it on, but there seems to be footage of ALL the Doors at the trial on youtube.com. I don't know if it was just an arraignment, or just show, but they're there.

[nephron]

I'd also like to reply that we've got to remember the number of hours Vince was exposed to Jim (eg) on a daily basis. We're talking tours, travel, concerts, private time, eating, bathrooms (lol), recording sessions, etc....it is indeed, more than fly on the wall. He might, on a daily basis, hear various things exposing Jim's character, including, for example, Ray pulling Robby over to the side of the shit stall and saying stuff like "you know what Jim did to Pamela last night", "and she said..." "and he said...", "and he did....", etc., etc. This doesn't include the all-out fights they probably screamingly had right in front of him on a multitude of occasions. Who knows? Vince probably can't even remember all incidents and only has a vague idea as to what happened because he was too fucking sober.

Anyway, you get the point. I think you can indeed, pick up a lot about a person(s) character and their relationships with other people simply by being exposed to them enough.

And here we are, all US assholes are acting like we know everything about these characters 30 plus years after it's happened and at a time where, in many cases, we were infants.

[windchime]

I'd also like to reply that we've got to remember the number of hours Vince was exposed to Jim (eg) on a daily basis. We're talking tours, travel, concerts, private time, eating, bathrooms (lol), recording sessions, etc....it is indeed, more than fly on the wall. He might, on a daily basis, hear various things exposing Jim's character, including, for example, Ray pulling Robby over to the side of the shit stall and saying stuff like "you know what Jim did to Pamela last night", "and she said..." "and he said...", "and he did....", etc., etc. This doesn't include the all-out fights they probably screamingly had right in front of him on a multitude of occasions. Who knows? Vince probably can't even remember all incidents and only has a vague idea as to what happened because he was too fucking sober.

Anyway, you get the point. I think you can indeed, pick up a lot about a person(s) character and their relationships with other people simply by being exposed to them enough.

And here we are, all US assholes are acting like we know everything about these characters 30 plus years after it's happened and at a time where, in many cases, we were infants.

All points well taken nephron, I apologize if I overstepped. I know I was just an infant when Jim died, what the heck do I know, lol??

Take care~