So I saw Ida posted a press release about Pitts, cool section in there:
The concert would have been released sooner if it were not for two missing sections from the 8-track masters. The dialogue section that comes before "Close To You" has been replaced using the live 2-track stereo tapes and titled here as Tonight You're In For A Special Treat. The other missing section was of the first 16 bars of music from the beginning of Manzarek's solo on "Light My Fire." Instead of allowing the missing music to prevent the release of this show, the band decided to insert the missing music from one of the other 1970 concerts.
Of course, we can only speculate as to what this means for Felt Forum..
Always eager to take a chance onstage or otherwise, Morrison experiments with the musical dialogue during a 22-plus-minute version of "When The Music's Over," leading the band into bits of songs that they'd never played live.
Jim saying "push push" 4 times qualifies as "bits of songs (plural) they'd never played live" apparently.
Wouldn't it have been easier to just take the segments that are currently on AL/IC and just put them back to their original location on the master concert tapes?
Reality is a temporary illusion brought on by the absence of beer.
All of that makes too much sense. What about using the 2-track for the missing LMF section? Was this used for ASC? Another thing, weren't there supposedly 2- 8-tracks running about the same time, so incase one ran out early or missed something, the other would be a back-up? Might as well give Jeff some food for thought, before we get something to bitch about the the next year.
Well I thought the deal with the 2 8-tracks was when the first one was a few minutes from running out they started the other one; I don't think they were meant to overlap any longer than a few minutes.
But I don't see why it wasn't on the 2-track backup; that's just bizarre.
Are these backups part of the great "lost tapes" fiasco of the 1980s when the AL shows were thought long lost and then turned up just in time for 'Alive She Cried' only to once again go missing before they traversed the entire globe to track them down again for Bright Midnight?
Yeah those 16 bars of LMF should be on the two-tracks! Perhaps it was used for the ASC version after all! It's one thing that Philly's missing a portion of the show, but using a portion from another concert for Pitts, that's just fucking retarded. Let's get them to halt the release so they can get their shit together.
It's pretty disturbing after so many episodes that again and again it seems that the archives of The Doors seem far from being organized.
They seem to have, they seem to have not.
They use the wrong sources (I'm thinking about PB69...) in official releases.
They have a "plethora" of items, they have nothing.
I don't know why this is getting mixed up here and at the LL, but the beginning of LMF is not what's missing. It's the first 16 bars of Ray's solo.
I don't know if that means it goes "try to set the night on" and then cuts or goes two more bars for the lead-in first, but that's where it's supposed to be.
jim4371 wrote:I don't know why this is getting mixed up here and at the LL, but the beginning of LMF is not what's missing. It's the first 16 bars of Ray's solo.
I don't know if that means it goes "try to set the night on" and then cuts or goes two more bars for the lead-in first, but that's where it's supposed to be.
Jeff's a bafoon. Nuff said.
Last edited by BrysonK on Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AK wrote:10 seconds of a light my fire solo. That's not a big deal... especially considering everyone says this show blows.
it's probably more like 30 seconds, but the real problems are why they didn't have this on the 2-track backup and how they're going to be able to fix Felt Forum with all of the stuff that's cut right out of there.
Heh. Good point, AK. It's just sad that they don't have their archive in order enough to track down the complete masters. Didn't they hire someone with a fancy title like "archivist" to take care of this stuff? Also, I know Chris will correct me if I'm wrong on this, but aren't the 2-tracks basically rough mixes? Wouldn't splicing in the 2-track source not match Botnick's final mix? If so, you'd hear the difference instantly if they spliced it into the middle of the song unlike the dialogue bit. Botnick would be better off splicing in the organ from another show just to fill in the missing segment if they can't find the original snippet. Why postpone the show for 16 bars they'll probably never find if the rest of the song is there? What confuses me is why they mentioned this in the press release at all. Are they impressed by their own cleverness? I don't think anyone would have realized it if they didn't mention it. They must have known it would only give people (like us) something to complain about. On The Doors to-do list: Find a new archivist. Find a new PR agent. Find some new tapes to release.
Porsche wrote:Also, I know Chris will correct me if I'm wrong on this, but aren't the 2-tracks basically rough mixes? Wouldn't splicing in the 2-track source not match Botnick's final mix? If so, you'd hear the difference instantly if they spliced it into the middle of the song unlike the dialogue bit. Botnick would be better off splicing in the organ from another show just to fill in the missing segment if they can't find the original snippet.
Of course they're rough mixes, but I mean, it's not like doing things like making that blend together is his job or anything.
I'm pretty sure his job is to tack on reverb without listening for glitches.
As for postponing, I didn't suggest it, dj_vera did. I'm worried about the type of effort that they're putting into these releases. It's a joke, and if it's any indication of what's to come from Felt Forum, it doesn't look like it's going to get any better.
I obviously agree on those points about FF. The only plus side is that they're aware of the problems unlike with Philly. But I think a postponement is the only likely result if fans keep saying they want the original piece of music edited back in to the Pitts show. If the release date is in March, then Botnick is finished. I think it should be handled like the missing Philly bits. Release them as downloads when they become available. (A pipe dream, but it beats waiting until 2010 for half a minute of Ray's noodling.)
And Botnick can't do much magic splicing in the 2-track source. I think I actually prefer him to grab the organ bit from elsewhere to keep the continuity. His job is to make these things sound great, but listen to "Love Me Two Times" from Bakers. There was no splicing involved, but he had to basically combine a mono source with a stereo source and you could hear the difference instantly. It'll be a similar problem with splicing in the rough, 2-track mix. Not nearly as jarring, but all the music and audience levels with shift over for 30 seconds and then back. I say tack on the 2-track source for the song at the end or as a download if fans really want it (and if they have it in the archives), but do the editing job Botnick wants for the actual concert release since they still have Robby and John's tracks available. What's really annoying is that the missing bit is probably sitting on a shelf somewhere right now but no one working for The Doors knows how to find it.
Last edited by Porsche on Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don't think it would sound THAT bad, and besides, I for one wouldn't really care that much as long as it's from the actual concert and they did the best they could.
The 2track (from my understanding) are just backups from the 8tracks, and the original 8tracks are already a "rough recording" it terms of editing. As far as sound quality, with all their equipment and knowledge, they BETTER know how to pull it off.
I'd see nothing that a little cowbell and a lot of reverb couldn't fix.
Porsche wrote:..Also, I know Chris will correct me if I'm wrong on this, but aren't the 2-tracks basically rough mixes? Wouldn't splicing in the 2-track source not match Botnick's final mix? If so, you'd hear the difference instantly if they spliced it into the middle of the song unlike the dialogue bit. Botnick would be better off splicing in the organ from another show just to fill in the missing segment if they can't find the original snippet..
I don't think that would be a big issue at all. The Pitts 2 track would likely sound much closer than something flown in from another concert in a different venue. Most people wouldn't even notice it. As long as the reverb and EQ are matched it would be a subtle change.
The Dylan Albert Hall show is a good example of this. The 3 track ran out during Desolation Row so they dropped in a separate mono recording from the Nagra machine the film crew were rolling. Pitts would be much more seamless than this as the 2 track was done with the same board, etc. I imagine the 2 track backups (assuming they exist) are just quickie mixes done were done shortly after the concerts so they could evaluate the performance. From a fidelity standpoint they will be close to mixes from the 8 tracks. The entire Hendrix Live At The Fillmore East set comes from rough mixes done in 1970 (Paul Allen has the multitracks)..
Bruce mentions it in the liner notes. I'm pretty sure it was during RHB, or the RHB intro before Hello To The Cities. Too lazy to go upstairs to read it.
I thought with the Pittsburgh release now announced and a full soundboard version of "Someday Soon" finally on its way, some fans might appreciate hearing this version of the song from Seattle with Jim's missing lyric restored. It was a simple enough patch and came out pretty well. I also made a clever edit at the beginning to remove some fan talking during Robby's opening. Hope everyone enjoys. It's in FLAC format -- anything less would be uncivilized: http://www.sendspace.com/file/t2h39g
