New manager's take

[wha happened]

Posted on the Doors board by new manager Jeff Jampol:

I obviously was not around in '67-'71 with The Doors, and I am betting that none of you (with a few exceptions like Salli, etc.) were, either.

I know Bill Siddons well, and find him to be a smart, charming, even-keeled, wonderful and warm human being -- and an amazing manager. He is currently managing Jerry Cantrell and Alice In Chains, among others.

I also know, obviously, The surviving Doors, and Jim's family, and Pam's family. And I know that Pam's family thinks very highly of Bill and still keeps in touch with him - the others have never said anything negative in the slightest.

I do not know Vince, but I am sure he's a great guy. I have a warm relationship with Paul Ferarra, Frank Lisciandro and others around The Doors' camp, and no one's ever said a negative word about Vince, either.

So, I think it's all water under the bridge, you can't rewrite history, and it's reeee-eeeal easy for all of us to be armchair quarterbacks and say, "Woulda, coulda, shoulda," and "Gee, if I were in charge, _______ woulda happened for sure!"

The fact is, we don't know, we can't second-guess, NOTHING'S "for sure", and to say one guy is good and another bad is just....ill-informed, unfair, and - in the strictest sense and definition of the word - ignorant.

No offense to anyone here - just my two cents'

imo, for Jeff to say that Vince's opinion (after all he WAS there and Jeff wasn't) is unfair, IS ignorant. I've heard a few interviews where Robby said they had some pretty bad managers, and I don't think I've heard one where any of them praised Bill? And about the new documentary, I fear it will be the Doors according to Ray. They finally decide to make one yet I'm sure didn't interview most of the main players, like Vince. No doubt it will be candy coated.

[cutis]

I agree with 100%!!!

The fact that Vince is rarely if EVER consulted or asked to do any interviews about his perspective of Jim, the band, and most importantly, Bill Siddons, is shocking!!! I posted about this topic in the Doors forum because I felt that what Vince had to say was too important for it not to be heard by others.

It's a travesty for Vince NOT TO BE INTERVIEWED in ANY DOORS documentary!!!!

[Bluecow2]

And about the new documentary, I fear it will be the Doors according to Ray. They finally decide to make one yet I'm sure didn't interview most of the main players, like Vince. No doubt it will be candy coated.

Of course.
The Morrison myth is what generates them $

As far as these upcoming documentaries go, I'll quote what Howard Stern said to Ben Fong-Torres last week....."what more can be written/said about the Doors, Jim Morrison?"

Agrees

[thewallsscreamedpoetry]

I agree with 100%!!!

It's a travesty for Vince NOT TO BE INTERVIEWED in ANY DOORS documentary!!!!

Was Rich Linnell consulted? He was an early Doors Roadie and later promoter......did any one care what Ronny Krieger had to say when he was alive? He too was an early Doors roadie along with Bill Siddons.
They can't interview everyone.
Kathy Lisciandro worked for them nobody is championing her cause......
Vince was a roadie later road manager and his view in a documentary would be interesting its sure but the fact they never took the trouble to feature him is hardly a TRAVSETY. Its a shame but its a shame that Paul Rothchild was not spoken to more often.
Vince was hardly a main player but he was an important cog in The Doors machine and it would have been interesting to hear his view.
Hardly worth starting a crusade over though.
The documentary will be everything we as Doors fans expect.........The Myth the whole Myth and nothing but The Myth as always.....but we will geta few nice pictures so well worth the huge amount we will have to pay for the priviledge of watching it.....

[Snakeskin]

It doesn't change my opinion about the Doors. I still
like their music. All bands have skeletons in their closet.
The music is what's important. People forget that a lot.

[cutis]

[You're missing one very important point. SOMEONE, in this case, FreedomMan, got in contact with Vince. And Vince has kindly made himself available to answer questions about his recollections of the Doors and Jim Morrison. Who has got in contact with Rich Linnell?? Or Kathy L?

Have any of those two made themselves available like Vince has to speak with fans?????

No! So, it is indeed a TRAVESTY if Vince's opinion is not included in the Doors documentary as he definitely has one and it should made known. Now if Rich Linnell is interested in the being in the documentary or for that matter Kathy L then it would be great if they made themselves available just like Vince has.

The fact is, you're an apologist for Jim's awful behavior and I don't excuse his abysmal behavior towards his bandmates. Yes, the Doors made some great music. Music that I still listen to this day! But I welcome Vince's thoughts and impressions because it shatters the "myth" and gives us a much more rounded perspective on Jim and very destructive behavior patterns.


quote="thewallsscreamedpoetry"]

I agree with 100%!!!

It's a travesty for Vince NOT TO BE INTERVIEWED in ANY DOORS documentary!!!!

Was Rich Linnell consulted? He was an early Doors Roadie and later promoter......did any one care what Ronny Krieger had to say when he was alive? He too was an early Doors roadie along with Bill Siddons.
They can't interview everyone.
Kathy Lisciandro worked for them nobody is championing her cause......
Vince was a roadie later road manager and his view in a documentary would be interesting its sure but the fact they never took the trouble to feature him is hardly a TRAVSETY. Its a shame but its a shame that Paul Rothchild was not spoken to more often.
Vince was hardly a main player but he was an important cog in The Doors machine and it would have been interesting to hear his view.
Hardly worth starting a crusade over though.
The documentary will be everything we as Doors fans expect.........The Myth the whole Myth and nothing but The Myth as always.....but we will geta few nice pictures so well worth the huge amount we will have to pay for the priviledge of watching it..... [/quote]

[thewallsscreamedpoetry]

The fact is, you're an apologist for Jim's awful behavior and I don't excuse his abysmal behavior towards his bandmates. Yes, the Doors made some great music. Music that I still listen to this day! But I welcome Vince's thoughts and impressions because it shatters the "myth" and gives us a much more rounded perspective on Jim and very destructive behavior patterns.
]

I dunno if those remarks are addressed to me mate but if they are then you are being a bit silly! So don't do it again!!!
I am no aplologist for Jim's behaviour and was simply making a point that other people who could have been interviewed were not......and that is the way of things.......the people who made the documentary probably thought that the viewpoint of one of The Doors ex roadies not that important.......I don't agree myself as I think that very important but thats the way it was and calling it a travesty is silly!

[Joriki]

what you are is a bozo whose feelings are hurt that the Jim Morrison myth is being deconstructed, and you're gonna strike out till someone stops. Go get a bottle, baby, and suck down some of that doors myth breast milk that's shaped your life.

[vince]

"One of the Doors Roadie's"

Tell me Sir, you seem to know so much, Just how many "Roadies" did they have??? Do you actually know or are you shooting your loud mouth off. The answer, you arrogant snot, is none.

I, that is this writer, Vincent Treanor III, Promoted by the Doors to the Position of Road Manager in March of 1968, resent the application of the British slang tem for an equipment handler.

If they wanted that level of competance, they had Linnell and Ritchie Krieger and, of course Siddons. Any fool can carry equipment, those slightly more intelligent can hook it up. It does take a little more than that to design and build what was the most powerful portable stage amplifier system for a group. I also maintained it, and all the equipment that they used.

The career of Linnell and Kreiger ended simultaneously with the arrival of Siddons. The term of their service was during the club dates and shows in minor auditoriums. My term included the largest and most important performances of their career.

Their term, including Siddons, did not include three of the most disasterous performances of their career. You obviously overlook the fact that the average "Roadie" could not design or build a transistorized amplifier system similar to that which I did.

A Mere Roadie - You are as insulting as you are ignorant of the facts of the Doors history. You sit back and condem anyone who does not agree to you. By what right?

For the record - Kathy DOES NOT WANT to be interviewed. She has deliberately cut herself off from any such activities. I can't say that, with people like you runing around loose, I blame her.

As for Linnell - How do you know he was not interviewed? And why should he be anyway except to further document the growth in popularity of the group and the reaction of the audiences in the clubs and auditoriums.

He certainly did nothing spectacular nor did he participate in any major riot or disasterous performance. there is one other little item. He never had to deal with Jim.

You buster, were not there. You have no idea what it is like. I am sure you care less as well. What you want is a sugar coated version of the Magnificent Poet turned Sait. Really - go read the Sugarman fairy tale. I am sure it will be re-assuring. What the hell is your thinking, anyway, you pompous groupie?

Get real. Just a roadie - You insulting clown. Just who do you think you are? One thing I do know - you could not have done it. Are you jealous no one wants to interview you?

Have some respect for your betters.

[thewallsscreamedpoetry]

Mate so you could build a speaker....whats that a roadie with two brain cells...
Sounds like you have rather an over-inflated opinion of yourself which comes through with your crap about LMF and Buick.
So we should believe the fantasy drivel of some idiot who connected the speakers over the guy who owned Elektra records......
Enjoy your moment in the sun pal.....you are so full of bullshit you make Jeff Jampol sound like he knows what he's doing.....
We have a term where i live for people like you mate......
WANKER!

[vince]

Well, Sir - I bow to your superior knowledge. By the way, I did not just connect speakers, I designed and built the entire system from scratch.

I am sure that you could do that is a far superior manner.

I am quite sure that your vast knowledge of the inner working of the Doors office ,policies, and activities makes you a far greater authority on them than I could ever be.

I'll tell you what, I will not post any more information, that way you will have no bullshit to read, and you can take over and answer all the questions. Lets see how well you do.

OK FORUM - HENCEFORTH THIS SO SMART GUY WILL ANSWER ALL YOUR QUESTIONS - I REALLY DON"T HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THIS. SINCE IAM SO IGNORANT ANYTHING I HAVE TO SAY HAS NO VALUE.

HE IS SO GOOD HE WILL EVEN TELLY OU HOW THE DOORS AMPS WERE BUILT> APPARENTLY HE HAS THREE BRAIN CELLS.

THANKS TO ALL. HOPE YOU HAVE BETTER LUCK AND MORE INFORMATION FROM THIS REALLY SMART GUY. BU THE WAY, LIKELY HE WAS ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS FOR ELEKTRA 1968 TO 1972.

TAKE CARE GUYS, GOOD LUCK

[wha happened]

Vince,


Don't let one douche bag make you leave. Everyone else on this board appreciates and loves hearing your stories. Wank is just a lonely man that has nothing better to do than copy/paste everything from Doors books, play with his cat and think his Doors website is the greatest. Seeing and hearing him in person is even funnier. He reminds you of an old woman complaining because the neighbor's kids are playing in front of his house. He'll argue about the sky being blue, given the chance. He's jealous and bitter that he never got close to the Doors inner circle. The closest he got was being a member of the official board, but even then his big mouth got him banned. So I guess the next best thing for him being close to Morrison is to snuggle up with his life sized cardboard cut-out of Jim. Sad indeed. He thinks's he's a Doors authority, far from it.

[The Freedom Man]

Alex crossed the line BIG time so he's no longer welcome here.
We won't be hearing from him again on this Forum.


The Freedom Man

[Mystery Train]

Alex crossed the line BIG time so he's no longer welcome here.
We won't be hearing from him again on this Forum.


The Freedom Man

thanks for that!

vince, i love reading your posts. everytime i come to the boards i hope there is a new message from you. your insight is absolutely great and refreshing! please don't leave...

[vince]

I went through this section of your postings and find, in retrospect, it quite interesting.

Jim did do a lot of creative thing. He and Ray, John and Robby left a goodly amount of interesting and entertaining music. Jim, in his more lucid moments, whote some wonderful thoughts to ponder and consider.

That he had his bad behavior is part of that person.. That it lead to trouble within and without the group was tragic. Eventually the ceative within him gave way to the destructive and it all stopped.

Today all we can do is reciew and speculate what he did, why and what was the result. We cannot know the real answers to his behavior because he cannot tell us the truth - assuming he would have when alive. In the end, many want to hold him up to be many things he was not. Has anyone given thought that it was that kind of pressure that he ran away from rather than the invigorating experiences he had when on stage.

One thing I can telly ou. Jim did not run away form the pressure of performances, or the other activities of the Doors. He ran away from the pressure of being idolized and from fear of the outcome of Miami with the possible loss of his appeal.

Blaming the pressure on performing was a mask perpetrated by those who speculated without giving full consideration of all the events of the year preceeding his departure for Paris.

Given all facts in the case, you can see that often times the focus of attention has been in the worng place for the wrong reasons. Try to consider that no matter what, Jim was not a saint, as fw people ever are, he had his weak moments and he had his assets. View him with a balanced outlook and he becomes a real person who was not understood or understanding. That, with his other problems, is the real reason Jim is now dead.

[elektra]

It doesn't change my opinion about the Doors. I still
like their music. All bands have skeletons in their closet.
The music is what's important. People forget that a lot.

Perhaps we should ask Vince how he feels about being interviewed for documentaries. I find it very hard to believe few or no one person/s has asked or tried.

EP

[vince]

I am here and in reality I have been. This little incident was infortunate all around.

Freedom Man set up this Forum for any and all to make themselves known and heard. He did not anticipate that some would make personal attacks because they do not agree with what is said here.

I am here, giving of my contribution, for those who are interested in understanding that every member of that group have personalities, problems and private lives. They were people as you and I. the difference was that They made it for a time and suddenly, the fame was lost.

But that fame is remembered herein and that is the purpose of this Forum

Make the most of it

[JLizard]

I think that if someone makes a garbage statement judgement etc., instead of banning them, their message should get transferred into a Topic called Garbage. As long as they are not swearing or slandering let's just put them in a junk yard. A lot people loved Jim a lot and their emotion takes over their rationality. Not a crime, but no sense in everyone having to entertain their bullshit. Thanks.

PS Please dont make this post the first.

[vince]

I take no offence to most of the things people say. I feel that we should not take a statement as an excuse for a personal attack resulting in name calling.

We all have opinions about things that are not hard facts. That is OK. We have the riahgt to disagree. But we should not get overly emotional.

This is especially true when we are carrying on a crusade to make someone look thike the Queen of Santa Monica Boulevard - Or La Cieniga whichever seems more appropriate.

Like a character in a play, we can like them but there is a limit as to how far we can carry the cause without looking foolish. We hope to educate and present facts, not emotions. Some Posters insist that they are right in spite of facts to the contrary. They bend any comment to their satisfaction to make others look foolish. That might be garbage. Still, no matter how far fetched they might be they have the right to make their point - once at least.

[cutis]

Not one of the surviving Doors have ever "praised" Bill Siddons. Let's face it. Siddons made some serious blunders while managing the career of the Doors. After reading Vince's explanation for how the whole Miami fiasco transpired, one can only come to the conclusion that Bill's youth, and LACK of MANAGEMENT EXPERIENCE did contribute to some serious mistakes. Miami could have been avoided if Siddons had done his homework and realized that the promoters for the Miami show were corrupt folks. He NEVER should have booked a concert with those people. One has to wonder WHY Siddons would start a whole new tour for the Doors in Miami and with those crooks. Bizarre and strange....

I mean, why wouldn't have Siddons started off a tour in friendly Northern California??? San Francisco loved the Doors. Bill Graham would have easily booked the Doors in March of '69 either at the Cow Palace or at Winterland.

But Siddons decides to go all the way across the country and start things off in Miami. A RETARD!

Posted on the Doors board by new manager Jeff Jampol:

I obviously was not around in '67-'71 with The Doors, and I am betting that none of you (with a few exceptions like Salli, etc.) were, either.

I know Bill Siddons well, and find him to be a smart, charming, even-keeled, wonderful and warm human being -- and an amazing manager. He is currently managing Jerry Cantrell and Alice In Chains, among others.

I also know, obviously, The surviving Doors, and Jim's family, and Pam's family. And I know that Pam's family thinks very highly of Bill and still keeps in touch with him - the others have never said anything negative in the slightest.

I do not know Vince, but I am sure he's a great guy. I have a warm relationship with Paul Ferarra, Frank Lisciandro and others around The Doors' camp, and no one's ever said a negative word about Vince, either.

So, I think it's all water under the bridge, you can't rewrite history, and it's reeee-eeeal easy for all of us to be armchair quarterbacks and say, "Woulda, coulda, shoulda," and "Gee, if I were in charge, _______ woulda happened for sure!"

The fact is, we don't know, we can't second-guess, NOTHING'S "for sure", and to say one guy is good and another bad is just....ill-informed, unfair, and - in the strictest sense and definition of the word - ignorant.

No offense to anyone here - just my two cents'

imo, for Jeff to say that Vince's opinion (after all he WAS there and Jeff wasn't) is unfair, IS ignorant. I've heard a few interviews where Robby said they had some pretty bad managers, and I don't think I've heard one where any of them praised Bill? And about the new documentary, I fear it will be the Doors according to Ray. They finally decide to make one yet I'm sure didn't interview most of the main players, like Vince. No doubt it will be candy coated.

[windchime]

Wow, this thread got nasty. I think it wouldbe great if all remaining members that took part in The Doors both on and behind the scences would be great if they choose to do so (including you of course Vince). I think all of them would have something to offer to the fans that are intriqued by the band and it's history both good and bad.

One thing, I was wondering Vince if you knew that Kathy L. was interviewed in 1996 by Rainer Moddemann?? Several others: Ray (of course, lol), Robby, John, Frank Lisciandro, Kathy Lisciandro (as previously stated, sorry), Gilles Yepremian, Phillipe, Patricia Kennealy, and Herve Muller. Many others. I will post it although you most likely have already read it. I found it very interesting (although I read it years ago) and it is very detailed.

I think in the end, everyone that was a part of this peice of history should be a part of documentary no matter what. Hopefully someday this will come to fruition.

Wendy~

Here is the link for anyone that is interested:

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Pa ... ietday.htm

[vince]

Curtis:

The problem with Miami was that, as you said, Bill did not do his homework.

First those guys were blacklisted my the musicians union for cheating several groups of their contractual fees.

Second - one of those incidents had occurred just a month or so before we were to play.

Third Bill stated that the fees would be based on 8000 seats - This was an empty building - formerly the Pan Am hangar for their Amphibious planes between Clorida and Cuba (A tourist Mecca before Castro)

Thisrd, He had no one in Miami to check on advance ticket sakes which were sold at a lesser price that those at the gate on show night.

Of course all that contributed to the anger of the group as a whole.
Our count, made by my cand boats with counter in hand at each of the entry doors we stopped y the goon squad at somewhat over 13,000.

The other half of the story is that Pam had a violent argue ment with Jim immediately before his departure to Miami. I believe she was to come with him but as a result of the arguement, did not.

Jim Drank to excess on the plane - helped along by loving stewardesses. When he got to the venue he heard about the cheating and that the goons had blackmailed us with the equipment. That made him angryas well.

That was one colossan mistake by Bill who should have done more checking on the reputation of the promotor - a known renegade.

There were tohers = leaving 25,000 in cash in the middle of a hotel lobby floor, Snubbing Bill Graham when Bill had a band back out of a performance.

His behaviou was typical of a young fellow, with little real social training, who is put in a position of power and status. It was NOT that Bill was stupid or mean in spirit. He was young and he behaved that way. HIS emnity toward me was based on my bid for the Managers Job. He got his job, I got mine and I supported him fully, without reservation.

I had no arguement with him. I knew that my bid for the job was very late in the game - likely the decision had already been made before I made my suggestion. The Doors made their choice and I followed their decision as was right and proper.

In return he caused me a great deal of trouble. Some of his mischief could have caused me to fail utterly in the delivery and set up of equipment for a performance. That would have been a disaster for all concerned except Bill.

He got waht he wanted and in the end they fired him. That is when Danny took over with Ray.

Any way, Curtis, I hope this make a bit more clear the Miami deal

You are right about launching a tour - We could have started in Jacksonville but Bill could not resist the "Return of the prodigal son" to Miami.

[Stuart]

Vince, could you please specify what you meant about the buick incident here which has caused a bit of mayhem!.

What is the real story here which you meant to say about the buick incident or did, i just got confused here!.

[nephron]

Miami could have been avoided if Siddons had done his homework and realized that the promoters for the Miami show were corrupt folks.

I'm not sure if I understand this statement. Did Jim berade, screw with the audience, and otherwise pull his cock out because of Siddens?

Miami was Jim's fault. A lesser screwed up and more secure/valid citizen would not have pulled the unit out in front of 13,000 people.

Do I think there's a problem with a seriously famous R&R star pulling his Johnson out in front of 13,000 people? No way. I would have laughed my ass off, and it wouldn't have offended me one bit. These idiots that came to the concert goaded him anyway.

But the fact that the Doors were blackballed by Arena managers after that night had only to do with Jim. I'm sorry, but I don't think you had to be there to see that.

Note that I'm not denying the fact that all the other factors, including fraud, equipment issues, Jim's lateness etc. had anything to do with setting the scene up perfectly for the final act. I'm sure Jim was instigated. But although the writing was on the wall that night, Jim didn't have to obey it.

[Stuart]

Just Wondering If Ed or/and Vince could clear up all this confusion about the whole situation about the buick incident?.

[vince]

Nephron:

I would like to set the record very straight.

You post indicated that you thought Jim's activities in Miami were not so bad and you, as one individual, would have had a good laugh. Others would agree with you I am certain.

However, be assured that Jim DID NOT "Pull his Johnson out" at all.

No photograph, video tape or observer has been seen or spoken who can or will show the Jim exposed any part of his body below his belt line.

During the trial hundreds of photos where exhibited - Not one of them showed any nudity below the belt. No witness during the trail stated specifically that they saw his anatomy.

The reference to Siddons and homework certainly does not mean that Bill was responsible for Jim's actions.

It does state clearly, if you read my entire posting, that Bill could easily have descovered that the promotors were a pair of thugs, blacklisted by the Musicians Union, had cheated the group that had played at a prior show put on by them.

The termination of many contracts as a result of Jim's actions were understandable. And you are right, it was Jim's actions that brought it about.

Jim liked to push the envelope. It brought him otoeriety, publicity. That let him know that he was somebody and could command attention.

The history of outrageous behavior by Jim went back to is early school years. All to get attention to make up for the isolation from Father and smothering by Mother.

Well - I think I have covered the story.

Buick - Jim did not want the Doors music used for commercial purposes. When the meeting was held to decide whether or not to accept the GM offer, made through Jac Holzman. Jim did not attend. The guys decided to accept.

The result was that Jim raised hell about it even though he was reminded that he had deliberately missed the scheduled Friday Meeting and could have voiced his objections.

It is said that from this time, Jim became some what remote from the others. He was always remote. They did not socialize together unless on tour or for publicity.

This did not change as a result of the Buivk Incident.

[nephron]

Alright! I fished and got the answer. I'd never heard you undecidedly proclaim Jim's innocence in that deal....

Vince, you're the ONLY one on this forum qualified to answer that question. Thank you very, very much. 8)

[vince]

Nephron

I was wondering if you could give me some clue, some reasonable advice, as to the nature and extent of the diversion one should create when one feels a real ripper coming on.

I do find it somewhat embarassing to be the subject of attention having let fly with something resembling bass EEEE of a 32' Bombard.

These Asians have noses like bloodhounds. Aside from the audio section, you can see the noses wrinkle as they follow the trail, unerringly, to the source.

Has anyone come up with a catalytic converter for such occasions? We might reduce the greenhouse effect by controlling the methane

[nephron]

.....ask George Carlin

[vince]

George - Georgieeee. Where are you.

I have a pressing question....