The Doors Forum

People of this forum:

I want to make a statement about Bill Siddons. I want you all to try to understand my position in this matter.

Bill was a young fellow, just 20, when he was selected by a vote of the 4 Doors and with the counsel of Paul Rothschild.

There were some compelling reason for their choice.
They knew him. Bill had been with them for many months
He was a friend of Rich Linnell who was a close friend of Robby's brother
He had proven trustworth, handling thousands of $$$ with complete honesty and accountability.
He was a person who, regardless of his technical weakness, had done everything he could to get each show organised and take care of the Boys. He worked har for them and deserved recognition for his efforts.
He was known to the promotors and hall managers where the Doors had played before. They knew him and knew he was as good as his word. Important in the entertainment business.

What was against Bill - He was young and immature
The power that his position gave him, though it was a hollow shell, did have an influence on his attitude and behavior
Though he had a fmaily problem that he had to deal with, he could not handle Jim with his problems. As a result there was a personality conflict.
Perhaps as a result of his own problems, Bill did not respect Jim as a person and this lead to further conflict.
He was younger than any member of the group and did not engender the kind of respect that an older person might have inspired

Why didn't they pick me.
Because they did not know me well enough, perhaps two or three months.
I did not know the industry people
I was older and they were a little afraod of my authority - They found early on that I was firm in my authority and took responsibility for the stage set up and performance very seriously.
I had brought a new feeling of security when they went on stage. The condition of their equipment went for poor to perfect in just weeks. They had no replacement and I would not be able to do all that was necessary as manager yet handle the equipment. They were very right in that.

I make this statement. Whe Bill was elected as the Manager I accepted the decision. I felt it was not right, even if I was not chosen. Never the less, He was boss and I resolved to give him my support and assistance as necessary to conduct the business and performances of our mutual employer - the Doors. I made no effort to undermine him or detract from his authority - Except when it came to the stage area during performances. This I was responsible - I was the absolute ruler of that territory.
I did not and do not hate Bill for what he did with the Doors and his back stabbing of me. I don't even dislike him. He was a boy in a mans job and behaved accordingly. I consider him in that light.

there is one thing that everyone should acknowledge. He had a tough job. It was not easy in any case. For the most part we have to admit he did well and we must give him credit for this. Yes, he made mistakes. Is anyone in this forum perfect. Have none of us ever not made mistakes?

Please give Bill credit for what he did. Let us all be objective about his mistakes and why and not shed too much blood in the process.

Thank you for reading this - long winded as usual, I guess. But I felt it time, especially in view of the eruption of emotions in the Lizard Louge - to make clear my feelings and give you good people some idea of why Bill became the Manager.

Let us now let this issue rest in peace.

- I did not and do not hate Bill for what he did with the Doors and his back stabbing of me -

Vince, you write persuasively and we greatly appreciate reading about your thoughts of the Doors and your time spent with the band. But I'm still a bit confused by your assessment of Bill Siddons given that even though you felt he did as good a job as possible as a manager for the band given how young he was at the time, you still express a certain "irritation" with Bill.

Why would you say that Bill "back stabbed you?" Is it because you were not allowed into band meetings? Because you were unceremoniously fired as live band manager without explanation? Because he hired Hanley to do the sound for the Madison Square Garden show in 1969 without consulting you?

I still get the impression from your post that you still do harbor "a little" resentment towards Bill. If I'm mistaken, than I apologize. I have no doubt that if you had been voted as band manager by the boys, you would have at least attempted to "manage" Jim a bit differently. And it's interesting to think that since you were older than Jim you might have received even a bit more respect from Jim. It's unclear to me how much Jim actually respected Bill Siddons. Overall, I've never read any account from anyone in the band expressing somekind of "resentment" towards Bill Siddons. And I've never read any interview given by Jim expressing any resentment he might have had towards Bill Siddons. Matter of fact, it never even occurred to me that Jim might have had any "issue" with Bill Siddons. And since Jim sometimes attended band meetings and sometimes didn't, I have to believe he wasn't in anyway "intimidated" by Bill Siddons and if Jim had any issue with Bill, he would have made it known to the rest of the band or even to Bill personally. But what do I know??

Anyway, thanks again Vince for sharing your memories and for trying to "Set the record straight"

Acually, Ray was openly and vocally resentful of Bill's decision not to open the casket for many years.
I think Robby has expressed the same emotion, but he isn't nearly as angry a person as Ray.

Curtis

Bill was duly appointed the leader of the management team for the Group. I was also given an appointment. My resentment of Bill is well founded.

Tellme how oyu would feel if you suddenyl found yourself dismessed, after four years of difficult and faithful, unfailing service? You would not be resentful??

Would you be resentful if your boss went out of his way to inform people that you were unimportant in the chain of command and under no circumstances should they communicate with you.

WOuld you be resentful if you went on tour and found not accommodations, after you had been driving for far more hours than was mentally or medically proper.

How about being asked by the manager to tell an anxious crowd that the band was missing a performer. After all, you were unimportant, He was the Manager and it was his place to do that dirty job.

You did not go through four years of working under Bill so you really cannot understand all the little things that were done to make my life miserable. In some case, to create the possibility, even the likely result of failure.

When the Group made plans for anything, a show, or recording session, it was my responsibility to provide all the equipment and support necessary to accomplish what had to be done, on time and efficiently. Studio time in those days was $100.00 per hour. Until I got wise and carried every possible piece of equipment into the studio, i was required to chase after some special instruments and embellishments so they could do what they wanted with effects on a song.

Being excluded from the meetings was a petty insult that Bill thought was a real hoot. Fortunately I could go to Kathy and get most of the information. But that was second hand

Remember that a Raod Manager is, in theory at leat, like a Vice President and should have the knowledge and capacity to step in should the Manager be ill, absent or otherwise prevent from normal function. It was fortunate that Bill never had anything serious happen though he was a madman on his motorcycle and loved surfing rough water. He also like reckless skiing and was injured on more than one occasion.

Bill circimvented or ignored all the protocalls for the proper function of a well organized and co-operative management team. That he did this was no real matter to me. That he did it out of revenge because I suggested that I, not he, be the manager was petty, childish, thoughtless and ignorant.

In reality he did all he could to make life unpleasant at the least and difficult at wordt, for me. It took him four years to get back at me - again in a sneaking, backhanded and cowardly manner. This snotty, egotistical, arrogant little boy, 13 years my junior, even lied to the Doors about why he replaced me.

For my part I backed him up when I could, covered him for mistakes and never ran to the Doors, as he often did, with complaints. He was the Boss, I accepted that and did all I could to work together.

So I should not be resentful?

Are you some kind of saint that would forgive that kind of treatment.
For my part I am just human with human emotions.

I know, maybe I seem unreasonable. OK, I understand your thoughts. But you were not there and I cannot go over 4 years point by point to make my position valid. Accept that I am a pretty easy going guy and I like to get along with people because I do not like the alternative of confrontation.

Anyway, I don't take offense to your comments. I do hope you understand my position.

By the way, Bill is the only guy who I ever had any probelms with. That should say something.

cutis wrote:- I did not and do not hate Bill for what he did with the Doors and his back stabbing of me -

Vince, you write persuasively and we greatly appreciate reading about your thoughts of the Doors and your time spent with the band. But I'm still a bit confused by your assessment of Bill Siddons given that even though you felt he did as good a job as possible as a manager for the band given how young he was at the time, you still express a certain "irritation" with Bill.

Why would you say that Bill "back stabbed you?" Is it because you were not allowed into band meetings? Because you were unceremoniously fired as live band manager without explanation? Because he hired Hanley to do the sound for the Madison Square Garden show in 1969 without consulting you?

I still get the impression from your post that you still do harbor "a little" resentment towards Bill. If I'm mistaken, than I apologize. I have no doubt that if you had been voted as band manager by the boys, you would have at least attempted to "manage" Jim a bit differently. And it's interesting to think that since you were older than Jim you might have received even a bit more respect from Jim. It's unclear to me how much Jim actually respected Bill Siddons. Overall, I've never read any account from anyone in the band expressing somekind of "resentment" towards Bill Siddons. And I've never read any interview given by Jim expressing any resentment he might have had towards Bill Siddons. Matter of fact, it never even occurred to me that Jim might have had any "issue" with Bill Siddons. And since Jim sometimes attended band meetings and sometimes didn't, I have to believe he wasn't in anyway "intimidated" by Bill Siddons and if Jim had any issue with Bill, he would have made it known to the rest of the band or even to Bill personally. But what do I know??

Anyway, thanks again Vince for sharing your memories and for trying to "Set the record straight"

I agree. From everyting I have read, none of the band members had a problem with Bill Siddons. As for comments that Jim was intimidated by Siddons is just ludacris. Also, Jim hated gossip, so I doubt if he did have any issues he would share them in an interview, not his style. As for Ray being angry with Bill for not opening the casket, I never read that at all. If you read Rainer Moddemann's "Jim Morrison's Quiet Days In Paris" you will see that is also untrue (among many other facts according to those that were there). Ray did not even believe (as far as to 1974) that Jim was even dead. Robby also said nothing about being angry with Bill for that or anything else. All of these people and more were interviewed for this documentation of his time there and the events.

As for any resentment that you may have for Bill Siddons Vince, I can understand it, to a degree. It seems that The Doors made this decision so perhaps the resentment may be misplaced. Although I was not there, I am sure it was a really hard pill to swallow, but it was the boys choice, not Bill's. I agree that you have stated that you hold not ill will toward Siddons anymore and that he was just a young man. I however also see a great deal of resentment in your posts in regard to him. I am a very forgiving person myself and I think it would be lovely if you could put it behind you now as much water has gone under the bridge.

Peace~

cutis wrote: As for Ray being angry with Bill for not opening the casket, I never read that at all. If you read Rainer Moddemann's "Jim Morrison's Quiet Days In Paris" you will see that is also untrue (among many other facts according to those that were there). Ray did not even believe (as far as to 1974) that Jim was even dead.

Ray has, in fact, stated how angry he was/is that Bill didn't insist on seeing the body MANY times, in print and in interviews.

I do appreciate your thoughtful response, Vince. Sounds to me that if one were to seriously raise questions about Bill Siddons management style back in the day you could potentially stir up a hornet's nest of complaints. At the time, I'm sure the boys didn't have much reason to complain about Bill Siddons management style. But in retrospect, I'm sure if they were to put some serious thought into it, they might have considered firing Bill and making Vince manager of the band. But there was no compelling reason for the boys to fire Bill and as Vince said he did his dutiful job of being the best road manager possible given the circumstances.

If we could go back in time, I'd like to think the boys would have fired Bill S and made Vince manager. Bill made some mistakes while managing the band (and which he's never owned up to, at least nothing I've ever read about). But what's the point all these years later? Just to bash Bill S?

Pointless. Bill had his strengths and weaknesses as a manager of the Doors. It definitely would have been interesting to see how well Vince would have done if he'd been selected to lead the boys down the path of rock'n roll stardom........

vince wrote:Cutis

Bill was duly appointed the leader of the management team for the Group. I was also given an appointment. My resentment of Bill is well founded.

Tellme how oyu would feel if you suddenyl found yourself dismessed, after four years of difficult and faithful, unfailing service? You would not be resentful??

Would you be resentful if your boss went out of his way to inform people that you were unimportant in the chain of command and under no circumstances should they communicate with you.

WOuld you be resentful if you went on tour and found not accommodations, after you had been driving for far more hours than was mentally or medically proper.

How about being asked by the manager to tell an anxious crowd that the band was missing a performer. After all, you were unimportant, He was the Manager and it was his place to do that dirty job.

You did not go through four years of working under Bill so you really cannot understand all the little things that were done to make my life miserable. In some case, to create the possibility, even the likely result of failure.

When the Group made plans for anything, a show, or recording session, it was my responsibility to provide all the equipment and support necessary to accomplish what had to be done, on time and efficiently. Studio time in those days was $100.00 per hour. Until I got wise and carried every possible piece of equipment into the studio, i was required to chase after some special instruments and embellishments so they could do what they wanted with effects on a song.

Being excluded from the meetings was a petty insult that Bill thought was a real hoot. Fortunately I could go to Kathy and get most of the information. But that was second hand

Remember that a Raod Manager is, in theory at leat, like a Vice President and should have the knowledge and capacity to step in should the Manager be ill, absent or otherwise prevent from normal function. It was fortunate that Bill never had anything serious happen though he was a madman on his motorcycle and loved surfing rough water. He also like reckless skiing and was injured on more than one occasion.

Bill circimvented or ignored all the protocalls for the proper function of a well organized and co-operative management team. That he did this was no real matter to me. That he did it out of revenge because I suggested that I, not he, be the manager was petty, childish, thoughtless and ignorant.

In reality he did all he could to make life unpleasant at the least and difficult at wordt, for me. It took him four years to get back at me - again in a sneaking, backhanded and cowardly manner. This snotty, egotistical, arrogant little boy, 13 years my junior, even lied to the Doors about why he replaced me.

For my part I backed him up when I could, covered him for mistakes and never ran to the Doors, as he often did, with complaints. He was the Boss, I accepted that and did all I could to work together.

So I should not be resentful?

Are you some kind of saint that would forgive that kind of treatment.
For my part I am just human with human emotions.

I know, maybe I seem unreasonable. OK, I understand your thoughts. But you were not there and I cannot go over 4 years point by point to make my position valid. Accept that I am a pretty easy going guy and I like to get along with people because I do not like the alternative of confrontation.

Anyway, I don't take offense to your comments. I do hope you understand my position.

By the way, Bill is the only guy who I ever had any probelms with. That should say something.

Vince, in the years that have passed, has Bill expressed any regret to you in how you were treated? I hope once he got older he mellowed, and matured a bit - Perhaps he came to realize what a pivotal role you played for the Doors live experience?
I'm curious if you and he have had any contact since your days with the Doors...

jim4371 wrote:

cutis wrote: As for Ray being angry with Bill for not opening the casket, I never read that at all. If you read Rainer Moddemann's "Jim Morrison's Quiet Days In Paris" you will see that is also untrue (among many other facts according to those that were there). Ray did not even believe (as far as to 1974) that Jim was even dead.

Ray has, in fact, stated how angry he was/is that Bill didn't insist on seeing the body MANY times, in print and in interviews.

To put it mildly-In one interview Ray said sending Bill to Paris to find out if Jim was really dead was 'sending a child to do a man's job'.

If that's not an angry jab, I don't know what one is....

But in Bill's defense, i'm not sure he'd be able to look inside the coffin even if he wanted to- i think the European coffins had the lids nailed or screwed shut.

StrangeNightOfStone wrote:

jim4371 wrote:

cutis wrote: As for Ray being angry with Bill for not opening the casket, I never read that at all. If you read Rainer Moddemann's "Jim Morrison's Quiet Days In Paris" you will see that is also untrue (among many other facts according to those that were there). Ray did not even believe (as far as to 1974) that Jim was even dead.

Ray has, in fact, stated how angry he was/is that Bill didn't insist on seeing the body MANY times, in print and in interviews.

To put it mildly-In one interview Ray said sending Bill to Paris to find out if Jim was really dead was 'sending a child to do a man's job'.

If that's not an angry jab, I don't know what one is....

But in Bill's defense, i'm not sure he'd be able to look inside the coffin even if he wanted to- i think the European coffins had the lids nailed or screwed shut.

These days they don't, that I know for sure. I must ask my dad, but I don't think it was other than we do it now.