How about an unedited Hollywood Bowl soundtrack?

Post by **StrangeNightOfStone** » Fri May 02, 2008 5:21 pm

I posted this idea over at LL awhile back, so sorry if the theme seems repetative...
We have never recieved a proper and complete audio cd of the Doors Hollywood Bowl performance- The cd that came out was pathetic- it was missing half of the show, as I think Paul Rothchild didn't want to repeat any of the songs that were represented on Absolutely Live.
Plus the video was inccpmplete as is- missing was all of Hello I love you and half of Spanish Caravan.

Do you want a *complete* Hollywood Bowl soundtrack cd, with Hello I Love You plugged in?
The queastion arises as to why HILY was omitted- I understand it was due to there being just a distant camera angle..so the audio is sound...
I wonder with today's technology, if the 'damaged' vocals in LMF and Spanish Caravan can be restored?
I'd drop the overdubs, like the sirens during When trhe Music's Over?

SHOULD there be a complete Hollywood Bowl audio cd?
Granted, it was a very weak show comapred to most of the shows from 68'- but was much better than most of the 70' shows.

Post by **Porsche** » Fri May 02, 2008 6:40 pm

To be honest, I don't think the original, untouched soundtrack is in any shape for a release. They obviously didn't have Rothchild go through the AL catalog to replace Jim's missing vocals for nothing. In some cases, the vocals just aren't there or aren't repairable. I think they (or Paul at least) pulled off a minor miracle getting the show into release quality as it is. An audio rip from the video release is probably the best we're going to get. Not sure what the story is with "Hello, I Love You." I think if they had someone other than Ray editing the footage together, we'd be better off.

Post by **wha happened** » Fri May 02, 2008 7:08 pm

HILY and the complete SC audio exists and nothing is wrong with it, I've heard it. Not sure about the audio on the other songs. Unless Paul thought those sections were weak and decided to replace them? Did they have a 2-track running like they did with the A-L shows? they used the same remote truck to record.

Post by **StrangeNightOfStone** » Fri May 02, 2008 7:10 pm

Porsche wrote:To be honest, I don't think the original, untouched soundtrack is in any shape for a release. They obviously didn't have Rothchild go through the AL catalog to replace Jim's missing vocals for nothing. In some cases, the vocals just aren't there or aren't repairable. I think they (or Paul at least) pulled off a minor miracle getting the show into release quality as it is. An audio rip from the video release is probably the best we're going to get. Not sure what the story is with "Hello, I Love You." I think if they had someone other than Ray editing the footage together, we'd be better off.

Having gone through the UCLA film program, one would think Ray's editing skills are top notch

A sizeable chunk of Jim's closing vocal in LMF was lifted from another
show(s)- Has anyone been able to pinpoint which one?

Post by **wha happened** » Fri May 02, 2008 7:16 pm

Been a long time since I listened, Felt Forum? Aquarius?

Post by **Porsche** » Fri May 02, 2008 7:44 pm

UCLA does not a good director make. Just watch the 'LA Woman' video. But my main point was objectivity. I think they'd be better off having someone else come in and put the footage together rather than a band member who used to make student films. We might have "Hello I Love You" and the complete "Spanish Caravan." Who knows what Ray's reasons were for not including certain things? He didn't even give Frank Lisciandro credit for his camera work.

I think if there was a back-up running, it was either just as glitchy or lost. I don't see the reason to go through the tedious process of synching all these bits from the AL shows to repair something they didn't need to repair. I'm not sure about the LMF dub. Unless it was a situation where Rothchild figured he'd already dubbed some footage and was good at it, so why not spice up LMF? Heh. Stranger things have happened.

Post by **Crown Royal** » Fri May 02, 2008 10:12 pm

wha happened wrote:Been a long time since I listened, Felt Forum? Aquarius?

Aquarius, 2nd show i believe.

Post by **StrangeNightOfStone** » Sat May 03, 2008 1:36 am

Porsche wrote:UCLA does not a good director make. Just watch the 'LA Woman' video. But my main point was objectivity. I think they'd be better off having someone else come in and put the footage together rather than a band member who used to make student films. We might have "Hello I Love You" and the complete "Spanish Caravan." Who knows what Ray's reasons were for not including certain things? He didn't even give Frank Lisciandro credit for his camera work.

I think if there was a back-up running, it was either just as glitchy or lost. I don't see the reason to go through the tedious process of synching all these bits from the AL shows to repair something they didn't need to repair. I'm not sure about the LMF dub. Unless it was a situation where Rothchild figured he'd already dubbed some footage and was good at it, so why not spice up LMF? Heh. Stranger things have happened.

It's interesting to contrast the 'The End' used in Feast Of Friends' with the same that was in the Hollywood Bowl video- the stadium echo was gone, and the film and audio were better synched....

Post by **manuel08** » Sat May 03, 2008 8:22 am

Porsche wrote: We might have "Hello I Love You" and the complete "Spanish Caravan." Who knows what Ray's reasons were for not including certain things? He didn't even give Frank Lisciandro credit for his camera work.

who heard HILY say that song is ok, no bad like manzarek say
maybe manzarek not including HILY because it was filmed by frank?

Post by **rokritr** » Sat May 03, 2008 3:32 pm

manuel08 wrote:maybe manzarek not including HILY because it was filmed by frank?

Here's what I know about the Hollywood Bowl shoot, from my talks with Frank.

The original plan, as decided in the planning discussions, was merely to film the final three songs for possible use in "Feast Of Friends." As we know, the final three songs at the concert were: "Light My Fire" (their biggest hit), "Unknown Soldier" (their most political and theatrical song) and "The End" (their most controversial and epic song).

The fact is that these three songs are the ONLY songs from that entire concert that features footage from ALL the cameras involved, including the one "slo-mo" camera....Whereas many may have thought that some of the slow-motion footage seen was done in post-production, it was actually shot in "slo-mo" onstage.

The reason that so much of the footage that was used came from Frank's camera (the camera that captures Jim singing in profile at the mic) is that (1) Frank shot more usable footage leading up to the final three songs, and (2) Paul's camera (the one dead center) had sync problems throughout the night. In short, Frank caught more footage and it was trouble-free. But there are also complete songs on the DVD that don't feature any shots from Frank's camera, as he was either shooting stills or loading his camera, etc.

Frank also noted, that since they were only planning on filming the last three songs, he also spent time throughout the show shooting still photos and he even went backstage at one point (where he ran into Jagger during the actual concert). That is the reason for the lack of footage for "Hello, I Love You" and the beginning of "Spanish Caravan." It simply was not shot by Frank and it may have only been captured by Paul's glitchy camera and thus un-usable.

People have to remember that the Hollywood Bowl was not being shot for use some 40 years later.....it was another gig being filmed for possible inclusion of a documentary film (not a concert film); the only real difference is that they wanted to shoot a couple of full songs (along with a professional audio recording). Which is why you can see the same footage (shot by different cameras) in different songs; they were filling holes in the editing bay.

With all that in mind, it's AMAZING that we have as much footage as we do from the Hollywood Bowl Concert. Truly a godsend, thanks to the work of Frank, Paul, and a few others.

Cheers!

P.S. Frank did the editing in "Feast Of Friends" (and that version of "The End").....As for "The Hollywood Bowl Concert" DVD that was edited by Richard Ross. Neither was edited by Ray.

P.P.S. Shooting a live concert is always a major endeavor, where in the words of Martin Scorsese in talking about "The Last Waltz" shoot, as soon as the concert starts all your plans go out the window. Scorsese points out that the Muddy Waters performance in that film was only caught by one single camera (until the very end), because all the other cameras were loading or taking a break. So, when you consider that the plan for the Doors Hollywood Bowl concert was only to capture the last three songs for use, it really is amazing that we have as much as we do.

Post by **StrangeNightOfStone** » Sat May 03, 2008 4:37 pm

rokritr wrote:
manuel08 wrote:maybe manzarek not including HILY because it was filmed by frank?
Frank also noted, that since they were only planning on filming the last three songs, he also spent time throughout the show shooting still photos and he even went backstage at one point (where he ran into Jagger during the actual concert). That is the reason for the lack of footage for "Hello, I Love You" and the beginning of "Spanish Caravan." It simply was not shot by Frank and it may have only been captured by Paul's glitchy camera and thus un-usable.

.

Even if HILY was not caught on film- i suspect the Doors do have a crisp audio recording of the that song - I really hope the Doors include that on a much needed, and long overdue unedited Hollywood Bowl soundtrack cd...

Post by **StrangeNightOfStone** » Sat May 03, 2008 4:47 pm

manuel08 wrote:
Porsche wrote: We might have "Hello I Love You" and the complete "Spanish Caravan." Who knows what Ray's reasons were for not including certain things? He didn't even give Frank Lisciandro credit for his camera work.
who heard HILY say that song is ok, no bad like manzarek say
maybe manzarek not including HILY because it was filmed by frank?

I'm not sure how well Ray and Frank get on, but one of the times I met Ray bakstage, another fan asked him about Feast Of freinds, and Ray slammed the 'poor editing' in the film.

Post by **Porsche** » Sat May 03, 2008 5:09 pm

Thanks for the info on the Hollywood Bowl gig, rokritr. It seems likely then that the HILY footage could simply be incomplete/missing. And while Ross edited the footage for the video release, I believe Ray was the 'director' and had final cut on the project. If he wanted something removed or changed, I'm sure it would have been. But I'm not sure that theory of mine even holds up. Why would they intentionally edit out one of their big hit songs from the video? A good solution would have been running the HILY audio during the credits.

Post by **rokritr** » Sat May 03, 2008 5:17 pm

Porsche wrote:Thanks for the info on the Hollywood Bowl gig, rokritr. It seems likely then that the HILY footage could simply be incomplete/missing. And while Ross edited the footage for the video release, I believe Ray was the 'director' and had final cut on the project. If he wanted something removed or changed, I'm sure it would have been. But I'm not sure that theory of mine even holds up. Why would they intentionally edit out one of their big hit songs from the video? A good solution would have been running the HILY audio during the credits.

No, absolutely agree with you about the audio release. The complete concert audio recording should have been (and now should be) released. I was merely addressing the film aspect in my rambling post

As for the audio, not sure I believe that whole thing about Jim's vocal mic cutting out, which is why Ray says they spliced in Jim's vocals from 1970 recordings in places.

As for not releasing the "Hello, I Love You" AUDIO, could it be that the performance of it just sucked or something? IF that's the case, they should release it anyway (based on some of the more embarrasing BMR stuff, that shouldn't be a concern).

Post by **rokritr** » Sat May 03, 2008 5:20 pm

StrangeNightOfStone wrote:I'm not sure how well Ray and Frank get on, but one of the times I met Ray bakstage, another fan asked him about Feast Of freinds, and Ray slammed the 'poor editing' in the film.

they still speak on occasion....as for the "poor editing" complaints, Ray has continued to use tons of Frank's editing work on "Feast Of Friends" to sell more product over the years.

Post by **wha happened** » Sat May 03, 2008 5:37 pm

Thanks for the info Steve.

Post by **jim4371** » Sat May 03, 2008 5:52 pm

I'd like to see a split-screen version with all cameras (or none) running on time, maybe with the slo-mo camera running at real speed.
Obviously I'd like to hear a complete, unoverdubbed soundtrack. As Greg mentioned, Spanish Caravan isn't damaged, yet the guitar is overdubbed. This makes me think the damaged vocal line is bullshit.

Post by **StrangeNightOfStone** » Sun May 04, 2008 4:23 am

rokritr wrote: As for not releasing the "Hello, I Love You" AUDIO, could it be that the performance of it just sucked or something? IF that's the case, they should release it anyway (based on some of the more embarrasing BMR stuff, that shouldn't be a concern).

Based on the audience tape of the Hollywood Bowl gig, HILY was fine, as good as any of the other songs performed that night....
It seems as Doors fans we keep getting screwed from getting live versions of Hello i Love You- The Roundhouse version apprently wasn't filmed, the Top of the Pops version is presumed erased- What about the Frankfurt version- Does Rainer really have the Frankfurt shows as he once claimed?
And of course, the Hollywood Bowl version is awol- We have Ray singing part of HILY during the Roundhouse soundcheck on the Doors Are Open, but that doesn't count..

Post by **StrangeNightOfStone** » Sun May 04, 2008 4:26 am

If you listen closely to the audience tape of this show, then watch the video- you'll be amazed at how much audio-editing was done, and not always for the better...

I know most of Jim's vocals from the finalie of LMF were cut and pasted from a later show- Where there any vocal overdubs and edits on any of the other songs performed that night?

Post by **wha happened** » Sun May 04, 2008 4:50 am

I think WTMO, right? and they changed the order in which Unknown Soldier was performed. I'm surprised they didn't do Break On Through or Crystal Ship at this show. Or the WASP intro to HILY like they did the other times.

Post by **StrangeNightOfStone** » Mon May 05, 2008 7:04 pm

wha happened wrote:I think WTMO, right? and they changed the order in which Unknown Soldier was performed. I'm surprised they didn't do Break On Through or Crystal Ship at this show. Or the WASP intro to HILY like they did the other times.

The thing that didnt' work for me that night was the way they fragmented COTL. Wake Up preceeding LMF was fine, but I prfer they do that piece whole, or not at all.

Post by **StrangeNightOfStone** » Mon May 05, 2008 7:08 pm

wha happened wrote:I think WTMO, right? and they changed the order in which Unknown Soldier was performed. I'm surprised they didn't do Break On Through or Crystal Ship at this show. Or the WASP intro to HILY like they did the other times.

In your opinion, how does the perfiormance at the Hollywood Bowl compare to the singer Bowl, or Celveland?

Post by **wha happened** » Mon May 05, 2008 10:26 pm

I'd definitely rank the HB over Cleveland. I'd love to hear a clean copy of Cleveland, just for some of Jim's comments. But I'd rank Singer Bowl over both, and over most of the other shows from that year.

Post by **StrangeNightOfStone** » Tue May 06, 2008 5:21 am

wha happened wrote:I'd definitely rank the HB over Cleveland. I'd love to hear a clean copy of Cleveland, just for some of Jim's comments. But I'd rank Singer Bowl over both, and over most of the other shows from that year.

The highlight for me at the Singer Bowl was 'Wild Child'.
When Jim said 'never before performed on a public stage',was he refering to 'Wild Child', or the poetry recited within WTMO?

How about the Hollywood Bowl version of 'The End' vs 'The End' from the Singer Bowl'? Beating both versions would be 'The End' from the Back Bay Theatre in Boston-that was one of the best versions of the song ever recorded...

Post by **wha happened** » Tue May 06, 2008 5:35 am

I'd rank the Singer Bowl version over the HB. My fav is the Matrix with the Singer Bowl and Boston tied for second.

Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:57 am

rokritr wrote:
Porsche wrote:Thanks for the info on the Hollywood Bowl gig, rokritr. It seems likely then that the HILY footage could simply be incomplete/missing. And while Ross edited the footage for the video release, I believe Ray was the 'director' and had final cut on the project. If he wanted something removed or changed, I'm sure it would have been. But I'm not sure that theory of mine even holds up. Why would they intentionally edit out one of their big hit songs from the video? A good solution would have been running the HILY audio during the credits.
No, absolutely agree with you about the audio release. The complete concert audio recording should have been (and now should be) released. I was merely addressing the film aspect in my rambling post

As for the audio, not sure I believe that whole thing about Jim's vocal mic cutting out, which is why Ray says they spliced in Jim's vocals from 1970 recordings in places.

As for not releasing the "Hello, I Love You" AUDIO, could it be that the performance of it just sucked or something? IF that's the case, they should release it anyway (based on some of the more embarrasing BMR stuff, that shouldn't be a concern).

It's incredible that HILY is their only other (besides LMF) #1 single and they have not released at least this audio from the Hollywood Bowl concert. Is it that Rothchild didn't like it, Ray didn't like it, or All of the above. They should have included it on the '97 box set.

Post by **lizard69** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:34 pm

LetsMoveGrooveRAMPAGE wrote:
rokritr wrote:
Porsche wrote:Thanks for the info on the Hollywood Bowl gig, rokritr. It seems likely then that the HILY footage could simply be incomplete/missing. And while Ross edited the footage for the video release, I believe Ray was the 'director' and had final cut on the project. If he wanted something removed or changed, I'm sure it would have been. But I'm not sure that theory of mine even holds up. Why would they intentionally edit out one of their big hit songs from the video? A good solution would have been running the HILY audio during the credits.
No, absolutely agree with you about the audio release. The complete concert audio recording should have been (and now should be) released. I was merely addressing the film aspect in my rambling post

As for the audio, not sure I believe that whole thing about Jim's vocal mic cutting out, which is why Ray says they spliced in Jim's vocals from 1970 recordings in places.

As for not releasing the "Hello, I Love You" AUDIO, could it be that the performance of it just sucked or something? IF that's the case, they should release it anyway (based on some of the more embarrasing BMR stuff, that shouldn't be a concern).
It's incredible that HILY is their only other (besides LMF) #1 single and they have not released at least this audio from the Hollywood Bowl concert. Is it that Rothchild didn't like it, Ray didn't like it, or All of the above. They should have included it on the '97 box set.

Yeah, it's odd because I think remember that wha happened already mentionned that he heard a crystal clear HILY from Hollywood Bowl at the Doors office few years ago. Maybe they keep it for a DVD release...

Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:13 pm

That '97 box set should have included HILY from Hollywood Bowl instead of MONEY from Vancouver. MONEY from Felt Forum was on the Live In New York disc. Did they really need the box set to feature 2 different live versions of MONEY?

Post by **midnightx** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:41 pm

If the tapes are complete from the HB, it would make for a nice audio release. It seems as though the band and its representatives do not see it that way, which is somewhat odd. It is a show from 1968 and it is multitracked.

Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:47 am

Of course everyone knows the Hollywood Bowl video concert, but remember this 22 minute album (more like EP) that was released in September 1987:

1) Wake Up - 1:40
2) Light My Fire - 8:15
3) Unknown Soldier - 4:23
4) A Little Game - 1:22
5) The Hill Dwellers - 2:20
6) Spanish Caravan - 1:19
7) Light My Fire (edit of live version)

This Hollywood Bowl album has long been out of print and since Jeff has said in the past that BMA is breaking even, maybe they should promote /advertise it as a re-issue including never before heard concert audio!!!