The Doors Forum

John seems to be the one w/ the quick fuse,Robby seems to be more passive and Ray comes off as being more-or-less a "spinster".At least this is how i see their public personas.Through various media outlets(books,magazine articles,tv,radio special).

But,Vince(if you could)who,besides Jim of course,was the one person that you had a hard-time deal with.Be-it communicative or otherwise.Who did you seem to butt-heads w/ other then Jim?As i figure Jim might of been the most difficult personality of the bunch).

Thanks

Peeps. Let's get some facts straight.

Though I do not like to put it into such blunt terms. I was an employee of a partnership called THE DOORS. Any one or all, were the "Boss"

I want to make clear from the outset - Jim WAS NOT a bad guy to deal with. I got along with him Just fine. If we go down the list, I got along with all of them on equal footing.

I have stated more than once, I carry the notion (perhaps I am wrong) that there was a feeling of mutual respect, admiration and consideration among the five of us.

I will state catagorically that there was never any arguements or other conflict of either purpose or personality between any one or all of them and myself.

John, Ray or Robby may dispute that but this is my honest feeling. Yes, I was fussy about the stage and wanted things on stage, done just so. This was for security, safety and presentation. They complied without exception or contradiction. Other than on stage they were the absolute rulers of the kingdom.

They were all really nice people. I know, Jim seems like the bad boy. Remember, if you will, that the majority of times that I interfaced with Jim, he was pretty well sober and drug free. Jim was easy to get along with, he was always polite and respectful to me. Anything that he ever wanted was asked for in a most considerate maner. He always phrased it as a request, never a commend. This was true of Bill, Kathy and Frank as far as I observed. Jim was trained to be respectful and have the bearing and behavior of a gentleman. Sometimes he forgot and we had trouble.

I have to say that Ray, John and Robby were the same. Always a request, never a command.

Personalities, Ray was the Gentleman, neat, well dressed in his tailor made suits. Ray knew what he wanted and needed which, when I think about it was to have everything ready for the task at hand and have no trouble. That was ot unreasonable. He was always quiet. We often talked about things. He would ask if there was anything I needed. If there was the instruction was alwa "See Bob Greene" (Financial Manager at Johnson & Harband). I know Ray "Used" but never in excess in my presence. He drank beer on occasion but I never saw him over-use. He was not "Soft Spoken" but he was not loud or assertive either. Ray came from a poor family in which his Dad did the best he could, Ray wanted to shed that image and he did. There is nothing wrong with that. I would say, rather than "Spinster" Ray transformed himself in to the image and behavior of a Gentleman, putting the tough times of his youth behind himself. No one will fault him for that. It is better effort than the wanna-Be's who join the playboy club.

Robby - What can be said of Robby. Pretty calm, easy to talk to. Quiet polite as befitted his parents and up-bringing. I think if anyone sort of Ran the Group it was Robbie, or so it appeared to me. He was more the business-man. That did not change his demeanor toward me. When he wanted or needed anything it was always a request. He was friendly and fun to talk to when we had the opportunity.

John, My little drummer. John was fussy about his drums which, considering that he beat the daylights out of them, he had every right to be. Once again, (this is getting to be boring) he never was abrupt to me with a couple of exceptions on stage when Jim was on collision course with Mr. Trouble. He was like Ray and Robby. I kept the Drums in good condition, clean and set up as he liked them. He was always nice and undemanding. In later years John made appology for the Siddons incident. He was the only one to do so and for that I can only say that if his size was in proportion to the respect I feel for him, he could not get through any doorway yet made. John might have been a little "testy" at times, but he has a heart of real caring. He is one of the biggest men I know.

I said in Jerry Hopkins interview that one could hardle ask for a better group of people to work with. Going on stage is a tough job physically. Really. All you people who have been there know this. No need to explain further. For others, I will tell you that is was hot under the lights, It was tense, though they were having a good time. It was pretty physical for a little fellow like John. Slightly less so for Ray and Robby.
There was always the threat of riot or stage invasion - something that resembled the Normandy Beacheads in 1944. My Band Boys and I were the Germans. Except we won.

I had a tremendous responsibility to those guys and we all knew it. I had to make sure that all the equipment was there and reliably functional. They never had a show go bad during my tenure. That is a record that few of my peers could claim in those days. I did it with nearly all volunteer help. There was no 10 or 15 member entourage in our organization. Maybe it is why I got offers from other groups when the Doors closed. But they wre not the Doors so I moved out of the Music business to finally return to where I started.

Ray, John and Robby, They are still good people. I have no current active relationship. But I surely do have some wonderful memories.

I think there was one other factor in the very cordial and respectful relationship we enjoyed. I was the oldest of the support team, and considerably older than all members of the group except Ray who was about 3 or 4 years younger. That may well have been a consideration.

Forget the notion that Jim was tough to handle. Jim did what he wanted. I could only suggest. As with many others in that time, I counseled against the preshow drinking and the bad antics. After "Work" what he did was his business. But when sober, Jim was a pussy-cat and a nice guy to be around, really.

Let's view Jim in the light of reality, not the stories of his bad behavior. That was infrequent, compared to the overall time frame. The problem was that when Jim caused trouble, it was News and rarely good news at that. The rest of the time, except for some excentricities, he was like any of the other guys in his relation to me.

I hope that I have given full explanation. I have as much respect for them today as I did in 1967. I thank them all for the consideration and generosity the gave to me. I hope I fulfullied their expectations.

Thanks Vince,thanks very much.

After i posted that question i was kinda regretting it.Partly because i thought it appeared i may of been setting you up.By this i mean,having you comment on perhaps the negative sides of those your "bosses".I was really just curious is all.

I know,and have heard John get "testy" as you put it.Robby,for me seems like a cool guy to hang with.Ray,i get the feeling you never could really tell if you are getting the "straight goods" with him or some elaborate story.Which is fine for books and the occasion story,but a one on one,well,it's nice to hear this other perspective that you offered on him.And John.Your comments on Robby were spot-on,to how i figured he was.

Yeah,and Jim being the dominate persona of the good,did get a bad rap alot of the times.I did figure though he would of given you the most trouble.Thansk for setting things in more perspective for me.

I just really,really wanna thank you man.What a joy to hear how things were,the good,the(sometimes)not-so-good.

I will respond a bit more to your original question of the Good, The Bad and the Drunk.

You see, I had a special relationship with the 4 guys. I was the technical aspect of their organization. I had one basic Job to do. When things went right, which they did 99.9% of the time, they knew I was there because they could see my ugly face. It was when something went wrong that I became in immediate demand and very prominent.

Not that there were no bloopers along the line. But the guys understood that things do go wrong and it was taken care of. Robbie would break a string or John would put a stick through a drum head. Sure, It bothered them but they were professionals enough to take care of it without raising a fuss. I remember a drumhead incident. After the show John merely said "When the head get a little wrinkled like that - change it" and that was the end of it.

Contrast Siddons. He's just a boy yet and has all the weight of that group on his shoulders. He had a great responsibility. Some of the weekly meetings got hot and heavy, John sometimes got upset and raised his voice. When things did not go well, Bill caught hell. He was the figurehead - hollow though that was - and for all appearances was responsible.

When things went well, as Bill tried to make them, he did not get praised - Because it was his job to make things go well.

Returning to my position, you can see the contrast. the amps could burn to cinders in the studio, we had spares. But on the road everything had to work letter perfect for the show and for the tour. That was a great burden for me and a source of constant worry. When the show was going on it was all roses and heaven. But imagine yourself standing there with one all prevading thought - What If.... And the what if was too horrible to continue thinking about.

I got along well with the guys because I did the job and stayed out of the way. I was the "Oil" on the gears, so to speak. I am sure that had something gone seriously wrong on stage there would have been a day of reconning.

Also consider that when I saw the guys, they were in a relaxed mood. Rehearsals, recording and casual meetings as they came to or from the office or were going on stage. They could ask questions or make special requests that something be done or obtained or such. the tension showed when Jim had been drinking before the show. You could almost taste the anxiety.

Poor Bill was right in frint of the gun barrel and when that went off he took it full force. And there was some really big shots fired on occasion. Again, I don't mean to insinuate that Bill failed, it was that there were incidents when things did not go well and Bill was caught in the line of fire - it did not mean that, each incident taken to view, he did not try to do what he thought was right.

I think that in these times, not back then when there was so much less mystery and the guys were performing with a 4 man band, that we see Ray propagating the mystique of Jim and all that goes with it. Ray wants to make music and he is very good at it. Ray also wants to make money. He repeatedly failed at his individual efforts and so resorted to keeping the legend of the Doors going.

Hey, people, Rock and Roll is a business. These people ultimately play and record to earn money just as I build big musical instruments. There is a time when a band becomes "Succesful". That is when they have their first Gold Album. That is when it goes from fun, playing in Dad's big garage or basement playroom with the neighborhood friends, to being a business. Suddenyl you have "Grown up" and gotten a real job.

Remember also that back then they were all friends. When Jim behaved, they loved him and when things went wrong they were understandably angry. Yes, I saw that side of them. I was standing right there with them. After all, it was My Group as well and my fortunes were directly tied to theirs. Because the guys got upset over some foolish incident brought on by Jim does not make them difficult to get along with and did not in any way influence how they treated me.

Today, Ray may be pouring a little rose colored dye into the water. That is business. When he quietly weeps over Jim dieing in a far off place under strange circumstances - That, my friends, is deeply personal and very private.

There are always two sides to each story and we must separate the conduct of the Doors business and public image from the personal life of each individual; that is private.

Remember that when you said that John was "Testy" I think that there is at least one book that talks about my "Testy" when I didn't get co-operation from assistant hall managers, or union bosses or other petty officials who put trouble in my way. Ask any kid who tried to come up over the front edge of the stage, before, during or after a show. They will define "Testy" for you. If you think John was "Testy" , let me tell you in my own words - You don't know what that word means.... I outdid him 100:1 in spades.

Robby - Robby with the electric hair. I don't know why but it just flashed through my mind - When he came on stage he would usually be night blind. He often had difficulty finding the cord for the Guitar. I used to plug him in and then turn the amp up. When he came up to the amps I used to say "Hi ya Robby" and he would come back... "Hi yah Vince". It was a little ritual, I guess. Robby was one cool dude.

It hurts to think about it Peeps - What in hell went wrong? How did we get to New York when we started out for Boston.



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