Vince how do you feel about Pam and Jim, their relationship?
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Vince how do you feel about Pam and Jim, their relationship?
I know about their on and off romance. Can you elaborate? Thank you, Vince. Need your input.
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well said, Vince!
But, as "dysfunctional" a relationship Jim and Pam may have had, Jim still was inspired enough by Pam to write songs that evoked his "love" for her. One can't deny his reference to "red hair" in several songs he wrote, including Celebration of the Lizard and his "ode" to Pam, if you will, called "Orange County suite."
But, as "dysfunctional" a relationship Jim and Pam may have had, Jim still was inspired enough by Pam to write songs that evoked his "love" for her. One can't deny his reference to "red hair" in several songs he wrote, including Celebration of the Lizard and his "ode" to Pam, if you will, called "Orange County suite."
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Quantity is Quality
I see - The measure of a man's love is decided by the amount of money he spends on hre. I wonder what happened to Richard Burton and Loz taylor.
Let me ask you - if Jim loved PaM so much why was he so tied up with Kneeley? Why did he have a sting of women that he had encounters with? Why did they almosy incessently fight, Why did he spend so much time away from her.
He must have loved Paul Ferrara much more.
By the way, Since Jim had a lot of time on his hands - after all the Doors had far more leisure time than working time, why didn;t Jim spend all his off days with her?
Your fantasy theories of romance do not stand up to the facts of reality. The measure of romance - or Love - is the emotional relationship, not the financial one. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Let me ask you - if Jim loved PaM so much why was he so tied up with Kneeley? Why did he have a sting of women that he had encounters with? Why did they almosy incessently fight, Why did he spend so much time away from her.
He must have loved Paul Ferrara much more.
By the way, Since Jim had a lot of time on his hands - after all the Doors had far more leisure time than working time, why didn;t Jim spend all his off days with her?
Your fantasy theories of romance do not stand up to the facts of reality. The measure of romance - or Love - is the emotional relationship, not the financial one. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Vince
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Did you know Jim outside of business? Did he ever confide in you his feelings about Pam? There is a woman who Jim confided in with the whole Kennealy situation. Jim said that she was obsessed. She wouldn't leave him alone and that their "relationship" (if you even want to call it that) lasted not even 2 weeks. I know love isn't financial but if Jim wanted to leave Pam or didn't love her then WHY did he ALWAYS go back to her? That proves that he loves her. Yes he did have flings with other women but Pam was the one he always went back to. Pam was the one he loved. The two of the understood each other. I appreciate you replying to all of these posts but I don't believe that you understand Jim and Pam's relationship at all. I'm not going to post on this board anymore. Thank you for your time.
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Well thank god you won't post here anymore cause apparently Vince telling you the truth about your fantasy really caused you to fall apart. People go back to people they don't love all the time. What are you 12? Go back to the doors sight and you can post about how Pam was Jim's "cosmic soul mate." Then you can ignore the fact that she killed him with her disgusting habit.
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I sure hope those names aren't 'Janet' or 'Salli', both of which are still hung up on Jim, wishing they were the 'ones'. Both of which wrote down what Jim discussed with them on any given day, yikes! WHO remembers a conversation they had with Jim, verbatim, 35 years later! Wake up folks. Jim isn't here to dispute their stories. I'm not denying either spent, some, time with Jim. But we do have some of Jim's friends that recall who was or wasn't around back then. In Janet's case, she is often referred to as, "just another notch in Jim'd bedpost" or "a speed bump". Salli is said to have hung around Leon Barnard and the office, hoping Jim would show up, more than she did with Jim.
Both do anything in their power to rip apart P.K., it's getting pathetic. They sound like two little girls fighting for Jim's (dead) attention. Rant over.
Both do anything in their power to rip apart P.K., it's getting pathetic. They sound like two little girls fighting for Jim's (dead) attention. Rant over.
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The relations
I met Pam on several occasions. It was inevitable, considering that today, I suppose you might say she could be accused of stalking.
Had she not been an addict, perhaps with the right person, she might have been an ideal companion, wife and mother. But essentially she was little more than a drugged groupie. What put them together was Jim's fame. What kept them together was Jim's money and his tolerance of her state of mind and being.
I think we can put considerable blame on Pam for the decline of Jim off stage, as well as a factor in the On-Stage problems (Miami). It was under her influence and constant nagging, that Jim spent his last months.
Of course it is the gross speculation - would it not be ironic that Jom called John to talk of going back into the group to get away from Pam.
She is not here any more. What she did, said and caused is all history. We cannot change any of it though we can voice our anguish and sadness over the results of her part in Jim's life.
I think we should remember in our comments on this public forum, that she had parents who are still living. Though this is a Forum made available to all for open discussions of topics related to the Doors - and associations, perhaps we should consider how the parents might feel if they read the postings.
We are all still angry, frustrated and unhappy about the events of 1970 and 1971. We cannot change any of it now. Perhaps we can be charitable and let the dead lie in peace. If not them - perhaps the feelings of the living.
It is so easy for us to condem, accuse and revile. Less so, but more respectful of Jim, who did make the choice of association, to let it go.
Had she not been an addict, perhaps with the right person, she might have been an ideal companion, wife and mother. But essentially she was little more than a drugged groupie. What put them together was Jim's fame. What kept them together was Jim's money and his tolerance of her state of mind and being.
I think we can put considerable blame on Pam for the decline of Jim off stage, as well as a factor in the On-Stage problems (Miami). It was under her influence and constant nagging, that Jim spent his last months.
Of course it is the gross speculation - would it not be ironic that Jom called John to talk of going back into the group to get away from Pam.
She is not here any more. What she did, said and caused is all history. We cannot change any of it though we can voice our anguish and sadness over the results of her part in Jim's life.
I think we should remember in our comments on this public forum, that she had parents who are still living. Though this is a Forum made available to all for open discussions of topics related to the Doors - and associations, perhaps we should consider how the parents might feel if they read the postings.
We are all still angry, frustrated and unhappy about the events of 1970 and 1971. We cannot change any of it now. Perhaps we can be charitable and let the dead lie in peace. If not them - perhaps the feelings of the living.
It is so easy for us to condem, accuse and revile. Less so, but more respectful of Jim, who did make the choice of association, to let it go.
Vince
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Jim and Pam's relationship
Answer me this then Vince. I appreciate your input. Thank
you.
Why did Jim leave a will to Pam? Why did Jim take off
to -Paris with Pam.?
you.
Why did Jim leave a will to Pam? Why did Jim take off
to -Paris with Pam.?
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Who knows? Maybe Jim intended for Pam to hook up with her count over there and stay for good leaving him to return alone and we don't even
know for sure that he ever remembered signing a will or what his
intentions were for the future. Bottom line, its all speculation but
as long as we are then I SPECULATE that even if these two never met,
they would have individually still been train wrecks. I will even
go as far to say that I SPECULATE if they were born in the 21st century
they would be wearing a label right now. There are all kinds of social
disorders. My six yr old has been diagnosed with one.
The Dr. had explained to me that my son has a problem with sensory perception. When he touches
something it doesn't feel to him like it would a normal person. This
causes all kinds of problems because touch is so important to developing
children. In one book someone had stated that they watched Jim try to splice film or something to that effect and he just could not do it. Sorry for the long post. I've never posted anywhere before
but browse some of the doors boards pretty often. which brings me
to a question for Vince (if you were able to make it this far), did you ever have the opportunity to witness
Jim doing anything that requires fine motor skills? Don't get me wrong,
I don't think his affliction is the same as my son's. I'm just pretty well
convinced that there was something not quite right with him and Pam too
although more than likely not the same problem.
Thanks for all your input. I just hope you don't get bored and go away.
Especially with so many refusing to admit that there are no definative
answers to some of these questions. [/code]
know for sure that he ever remembered signing a will or what his
intentions were for the future. Bottom line, its all speculation but
as long as we are then I SPECULATE that even if these two never met,
they would have individually still been train wrecks. I will even
go as far to say that I SPECULATE if they were born in the 21st century
they would be wearing a label right now. There are all kinds of social
disorders. My six yr old has been diagnosed with one.
The Dr. had explained to me that my son has a problem with sensory perception. When he touches
something it doesn't feel to him like it would a normal person. This
causes all kinds of problems because touch is so important to developing
children. In one book someone had stated that they watched Jim try to splice film or something to that effect and he just could not do it. Sorry for the long post. I've never posted anywhere before
but browse some of the doors boards pretty often. which brings me
to a question for Vince (if you were able to make it this far), did you ever have the opportunity to witness
Jim doing anything that requires fine motor skills? Don't get me wrong,
I don't think his affliction is the same as my son's. I'm just pretty well
convinced that there was something not quite right with him and Pam too
although more than likely not the same problem.
Thanks for all your input. I just hope you don't get bored and go away.
Especially with so many refusing to admit that there are no definative
answers to some of these questions. [/code]
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Big Engines
In truth I never did see Jim fooling around with motors. He did wreck his Shelby Cobra just a week or so after he got it.
I never observed Jim doing much with his hands except writing, turning pages of the oft present books, or weilding a mike on Stage.
I really don't think Jim was involved with or even thought much of mechanical skills.
When the two movies were made, Franck Lisciandro did the editing. I did not see Jim do anything along that nature.
I never observed Jim doing much with his hands except writing, turning pages of the oft present books, or weilding a mike on Stage.
I really don't think Jim was involved with or even thought much of mechanical skills.
When the two movies were made, Franck Lisciandro did the editing. I did not see Jim do anything along that nature.
Vince
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Do you think?
Does anyone think that perhaps in spite of Pam's "problems" that Jim may have loved her deep down?? I ask this because he did leave the US to meet up with her (even though she was having an affair, something Jim was not a strager to himself). I beleive he left to find inner peace and write, but he chose to live his life there with her. What are everyone's thoughts on this matter? I know it has been discussed a lot here, but it seems that she may have (at least in private) been more of a nuisance to Jim.
Regards,
Wendy~
Regards,
Wendy~
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Romeo and Juliet
No one can say what was in jim's mind at any time on any subject. It is nothing more than presumption to do so.
Jim never went to "Meet up" with Pam. If Pam was anywhere she was there because Jim paid for it with cold cash. That is fact. She dumped every dime she got from anyone into her arms or nose or on faddy clothes or parties with her friends - not Jim's friends.
Jim left the US because he knew he had ended his career as a stage performers with the Doors. There would never again, under any circumstances, play with him in public.
He left the US to go to Paris because of some romantic notion that he would become the great "Poet" that everyone was telling him he was. That, in another vernacular, is called "Kissing Ass". He did not go there to Meet - Up with Pam. Remember that she was his favorite X object. In return he satisfied her habit. It is called a symbiotic relationship.
She was nothing more than a pest, a whiner, She always had a terrible case of the "Gimmies". Gimmie this and Gimmie that. She was obnoxious, demanding, posessive, jealous, uninhibited, flirtatios and definitely not faithful. They had loud and ongoing arguements when he was drunk and she was sober.
Does this spund like true romance?
If Jim likes her so much why did he find it so entertaining to spend many weekends with "Other Women"? You know, this who fabrication of how much Jim loved Pam and Pam loved Jim completely ignores the facts of the relationship. It seems that the basis for the romantic position always comes from women.
In any case I would suggest that you review the activities of both of them. I would suggest that you form the basis of your assumptions of true love more on the facts, rather than wishful thinking.
Thanks for attending the forum and contributing your thoughts.
Jim never went to "Meet up" with Pam. If Pam was anywhere she was there because Jim paid for it with cold cash. That is fact. She dumped every dime she got from anyone into her arms or nose or on faddy clothes or parties with her friends - not Jim's friends.
Jim left the US because he knew he had ended his career as a stage performers with the Doors. There would never again, under any circumstances, play with him in public.
He left the US to go to Paris because of some romantic notion that he would become the great "Poet" that everyone was telling him he was. That, in another vernacular, is called "Kissing Ass". He did not go there to Meet - Up with Pam. Remember that she was his favorite X object. In return he satisfied her habit. It is called a symbiotic relationship.
She was nothing more than a pest, a whiner, She always had a terrible case of the "Gimmies". Gimmie this and Gimmie that. She was obnoxious, demanding, posessive, jealous, uninhibited, flirtatios and definitely not faithful. They had loud and ongoing arguements when he was drunk and she was sober.
Does this spund like true romance?
If Jim likes her so much why did he find it so entertaining to spend many weekends with "Other Women"? You know, this who fabrication of how much Jim loved Pam and Pam loved Jim completely ignores the facts of the relationship. It seems that the basis for the romantic position always comes from women.
In any case I would suggest that you review the activities of both of them. I would suggest that you form the basis of your assumptions of true love more on the facts, rather than wishful thinking.
Thanks for attending the forum and contributing your thoughts.
Vince
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i know it's a bit off topic, but you have stated in your post, vince, that the doors would never be playing with jim live on stage anymore (after new orleans).
so were there any rehearsals or something after that concert? did they talk about it or was it more something like an unspoken "agreement"?
jeez, it's hard to somehow accept the fact that the doors were done, over, finito, while jim was still beeing alive. and still they are telling in interviews (ray, john, robby) that they were waiting for him to come back and play some gigs...confusing to me. can't they stand to their decisions or would it be bad publicity?
what do you think vince?
so were there any rehearsals or something after that concert? did they talk about it or was it more something like an unspoken "agreement"?
jeez, it's hard to somehow accept the fact that the doors were done, over, finito, while jim was still beeing alive. and still they are telling in interviews (ray, john, robby) that they were waiting for him to come back and play some gigs...confusing to me. can't they stand to their decisions or would it be bad publicity?
what do you think vince?
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Night of the living dead
Yes, The Doors as a Performing Group was over before Jim died. At least in theory.
The basis of the problem was Jim behavior on stage and the uncertainty of the quality of his performance.
Jim and the other 3 members planned, without exception, to continue to produce recordings of songs, old and new, and to put these recordings on the market.
The discussions of Jim's return were based entirely on a single phone call made to John by Jim in Paris. In this call Jim stated that he thought he would like to return to LA and get back together. The reasons or purpose for this reunion were not specific. However, it is unlikely that, without some sign of radical change, they would remain steadfast in the decision not to perform publicly.
As for the current situation of mythology, it is propagated likely for the purpose of financial gain. Possibly for keeping people interested in the dream - unrealistic though that might be.
The three remaining member were realistic. They had a good thing going. They wanted to stay in business. After all, what do you do with a washed up rock star. The decision was made to change the format of the group adding the organ, eliminating the Piano bass, adding a live bass player and another guitarist. Initially, because of Jim's attitude at the time of completion of LA Woman, they did not contemplate Jim being the Singer. His interest in "Returning" came as a bit of a shock.
It was a considerable part of the SHock that sent them into such a Guilt Mode when Jim Died. Here they were rehearsing for a road show and Jim is talking of coming back - Oh My, what a nasty situation.
The basis of the problem was Jim behavior on stage and the uncertainty of the quality of his performance.
Jim and the other 3 members planned, without exception, to continue to produce recordings of songs, old and new, and to put these recordings on the market.
The discussions of Jim's return were based entirely on a single phone call made to John by Jim in Paris. In this call Jim stated that he thought he would like to return to LA and get back together. The reasons or purpose for this reunion were not specific. However, it is unlikely that, without some sign of radical change, they would remain steadfast in the decision not to perform publicly.
As for the current situation of mythology, it is propagated likely for the purpose of financial gain. Possibly for keeping people interested in the dream - unrealistic though that might be.
The three remaining member were realistic. They had a good thing going. They wanted to stay in business. After all, what do you do with a washed up rock star. The decision was made to change the format of the group adding the organ, eliminating the Piano bass, adding a live bass player and another guitarist. Initially, because of Jim's attitude at the time of completion of LA Woman, they did not contemplate Jim being the Singer. His interest in "Returning" came as a bit of a shock.
It was a considerable part of the SHock that sent them into such a Guilt Mode when Jim Died. Here they were rehearsing for a road show and Jim is talking of coming back - Oh My, what a nasty situation.
Vince
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I FOUND THIS POST VERY INTERESTING AND INACCURATE
So glad you think so, wha happened. Just goes to show you don't know anything about me and Jim or our friendship. That's what it was, a friendship between two reasonably intelligent human beings who shared a lot of interests in common including a deep love of words, art, film and theater. We were both writers and we had strong opinions on a variety of subjects which we shared with each other.wha happened wrote:I sure hope those names aren't 'Janet' or 'Salli', both of which are still hung up on Jim, wishing they were the 'ones'. Both of which wrote down what Jim discussed with them on any given day, yikes! WHO remembers a conversation they had with Jim, verbatim, 35 years later! Wake up folks. Jim isn't here to dispute their stories. I'm not denying either spent, some, time with Jim. But we do have some of Jim's friends that recall who was or wasn't around back then. In Janet's case, she is often referred to as, "just another notch in Jim'd bedpost" or "a speed bump". Salli is said to have hung around Leon Barnard and the office, hoping Jim would show up, more than she did with Jim.
Both do anything in their power to rip apart P.K., it's getting pathetic. They sound like two little girls fighting for Jim's (dead) attention. Rant over.
I was not hung up on Jim back then. I am not hung up on Jim now.
I'd like to know where you get off lying like this about me and about Janet, who FYI was not just
I'd like to know who your sources are for saying what you've said. Oh wait...a speed bump.
But we do have some of Jim's friends that recall who was or wasn't around back then.
Odd, I didn't see anyone but Babe Hill when I was with Jim, and Babe wasn't around all the time. I met Kathy at the office a few times while doing the interview and the follow up to it. Kathy and Frank and Jim and I went to a movie one night in late November and it was only after that that Kathy and I became friends.
Same with Janet. No one saw Janet and Jim together except for Kathy and Frank, once, when Janet and Jim went to dinner at their home..apartment whatever.
So who are these friends of Jim's who claim to know all about where I spent my time, how I spent my time, and with whom I spent my time when Jim and I were friends? Same for Janet.
You claim that I was said to
.have hung around Leon Barnard and the office, hoping Jim would show up, more than (I) she did with Jim.
I did not know Leon Bernard back in the day (1970-71). I met Leon for the very first time on the Lizard Lounge last year. I did not hang around the Doors office waiting for Jim or anyone else except as it pertained to my job. Oh surprise! I had a job. I worked for a living as a reporter. I guess you've forgotten that. I was a journalist for 30 years. Do you really think I did only one interview (Jim Morrison) in all those years?
As for my beef with Kennealy, she has lied about Jim and made money off of those lies from fans who don't know the truth. She gets away with it because Jim is dead and can't defend himself. As a friend, all I'm trying to do is defend my friend and tell the truth that Jim shared with me about Kennealy. I think it only fair that people be informed about Jim's side of the situation. When we discussed her I took mental notes that I later wrote down in my journal (reporter's habit).
Janet also kept a journal and has tried to expose the truth about Kennealy. You should thank us for it. Maybe Kennealy won't make as much money off of Jim's dead corpse as she might have had we not stood up for Jim and his truth.
The next time you want to say something about me, before you post more lies, try asking me about it first. :!:
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wha happened wrote:We all know about the timelines, they've been rammed down our throats for years. Sorry dear, but I tend to believe Lisciandro on this, unless you want to call him a liar too? When was the last time you spoke to Babe?
Read the damned timelines and pay attention to them. They are accurate and you might actually learn something.
As your post reads, you imply a lot. In it you seem to claim that you have talked to Frank about me? I doubt that. I think you're nothing but a trouble maker who lies and thinks you can get away with it because you post under an anonymous name and a really stupid looking avatar.
Give me your real name, wha happened. I'll call Frank and check you out with him. I'll ask him what he's said about me to you.
Frank and I went through this once before in the late 1990s and the person had never even contacted Frank, but told me he had and that they were friends. Frank called him the liar. Frank didn't know who the guy was...You maybe?
So until I hear it from Frank, what you have posted and attributed to Frank trying to make Frank look like a liar, makes you the coward and the liar.
Why? Because Frank met me and saw me only once in 1970-1971 for about four hours at a movie theater when he and Kathy and Jim and I went to a movie.
That does not give Frank any authority to speak to what went on between me and Jim at that time. It gives Frank no credibility to speak to my life and what I did at that time, except for that one night at the movie in late November 1970.
So listen up, stupid! Frank was no where in sight...except for one night. You got that?!
Leon: Leon quit working for the Doors way before I met Jim. I've never seen Leon in person. Leon and I have never been in the same geographic location at the same time. We met about two years ago on the Doors Board. I've still never seen Leon in person and he couldn't begin to describe me if his life depended on it.
As for Babe, same question back at you, wha happened. When did you last see or talk to Babe?
Don't forget to give me your real name so I can call Frank and check you out...unless of course you want to continue to be the liar and coward that you so clearly are.
I get so f...ing tired of trouble makers like you lying about and trying to play Jim's surviving friends against each other for your own damn stupid little ego trips.
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oook. so you're calling Frank a liar? And when was the last time you SPOKE to Babe? Do you think Frank will say, oh yes Salli, I said this and this and that. He is too nice of a guy, sorry. The world doesn't revolve around trying to one up Patricia and to let everyone know what kind of toothpaste Jim preferred or what he would think about something 40 years later. It's not a matter of whether you met Jim, but rather the amount of time spent with him.
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You missed the point. I called you the liar. You also need to learn to comprehend what you read. It's obvious from your reply to my post that you haven't really comprehended what what I posted.wha happened wrote:oook. so you're calling Frank a liar? And when was the last time you SPOKE to Babe? Do you think Frank will say, oh yes Salli, I said this and this and that. He is too nice of a guy, sorry. The world doesn't revolve around trying to one up Patricia and to let everyone know what kind of toothpaste Jim preferred or what he would think about something 40 years later. It's not a matter of whether you met Jim, but rather the amount of time spent with him.
Now once again, your real name, how you know Frank and the last time you talked to Babe Hill, so I can call Frank and verify if he even knows you, which I seriously doubt.
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You missed the point.salli wrote:You missed the point. I called you the liar. You also need to learn to comprehend what you read. It's obvious from your reply to my post that you haven't really comprehended what what I posted.wha happened wrote:oook. so you're calling Frank a liar? And when was the last time you SPOKE to Babe? Do you think Frank will say, oh yes Salli, I said this and this and that. He is too nice of a guy, sorry. The world doesn't revolve around trying to one up Patricia and to let everyone know what kind of toothpaste Jim preferred or what he would think about something 40 years later. It's not a matter of whether you met Jim, but rather the amount of time spent with him.
Now once again, your real name, how you know Frank and the last time you talked to Babe Hill, so I can call Frank and verify if he even knows you, which I seriously doubt.
This
is you calling Frank a liar.Frank met me and saw me only once in 1970-1971 for about four hours at a movie theater when he and Kathy and Jim and I went to a movie.
That does not give Frank any authority to speak to what went on between me and Jim at that time. It gives Frank no credibility to speak to my life and what I did at that time, except for that one night at the movie in late November 1970.
Now why in the hell would it ever be in his interest to divulge the content and nature of his contact with Frank, much less his own identity, to you?
And why would Frank divulge the content of said contact?
To satisfy your little pointless quest?
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No Jim4371, it says Frank wasn't there. It says Frank did not spend more than four hours around me and Jim, so Frank can't tell you or anyone else what Frank doesn't know anything about. That's all it says.jim4371 wrote:You missed the point.salli wrote:You missed the point. I called you the liar. You also need to learn to comprehend what you read. It's obvious from your reply to my post that you haven't really comprehended what what I posted.wha happened wrote:oook. so you're calling Frank a liar? And when was the last time you SPOKE to Babe? Do you think Frank will say, oh yes Salli, I said this and this and that. He is too nice of a guy, sorry. The world doesn't revolve around trying to one up Patricia and to let everyone know what kind of toothpaste Jim preferred or what he would think about something 40 years later. It's not a matter of whether you met Jim, but rather the amount of time spent with him.
Now once again, your real name, how you know Frank and the last time you talked to Babe Hill, so I can call Frank and verify if he even knows you, which I seriously doubt.
Thisis you calling Frank a liar.Frank met me and saw me only once in 1970-1971 for about four hours at a movie theater when he and Kathy and Jim and I went to a movie.
That does not give Frank any authority to speak to what went on between me and Jim at that time. It gives Frank no credibility to speak to my life and what I did at that time, except for that one night at the movie in late November 1970.
Now why in the hell would it ever be in his interest to divulge the content and nature of his contact with Frank, much less his own identity, to you?
And why would Frank divulge the content of said contact?
To satisfy your little pointless quest?
Why would Frank divulge content of said contact, because I'd ask him to. That's why.
Of course WH won't reveal who he is. It would allow me to prove him a liar. That makes him coward. I also asked wha happened to send me the info in a PM. He didn't.
BTW I've run into people before who lied about knowing Frank, so they could attack people who knew Jim, like Leon. Two of them were on the LL.
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