Should the Hollywood Bowl audio be restored?

Post by **StrangeNightOfStone** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:24 pm

The Doors have yet to release a complete audio soundtrack of their July 1968 Hollywood Bowl performance.

The video was incomplete, with all of 'Hello I Love you' having been omitted, as well as the first half of 'Spanish Caravan'. Most of the vocals of the 2nd half of 'Light My Fire' was replaced with LMF vocals from a different performance. (Felt Forum I believe)

When Jim took the foam cover off his microphone, he apparently created static or feedback that was recorded -hence the need for all the overdubs-

*But given the advances in technology over the past 20 years- couldn't the Hollywood Bowl audio be restored to an acurate representation?

*I've read the only reason 'Hello I Love You' was omitted was because there was only 1 camera angle- so the audio must be fine...

*Unless the master reels were somehow damaged in the 1980s restoration process- could- and SHOULD the Hollywood Bowl audio be restored and released? And even if it could be restored- will the Doors follow through?

Even when the video came out, the cd soundtrack we got was pathetic- it was only 3 or so songs, as Paul Rothchild didn't want to repeat any tracks that were on Absolutely live....

The performance itself was a bit weak- not their best, but not their worst- But I would like the complete show on cd...

Post by **midnightx** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:02 am

I'd love to hear a complete audio version. My impression is that there are some missing pieces of songs from the master tapes. If a decent audience source survives, perhaps they could add the audience source in place of the missing parts like the upcoming FF. That being said, it is doubtful a complete audio release of the HB ever gets issued....

Post by **Chris M** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:58 am

Absolutely should be restored. I'm surprised they haven't considering they have the raw footage and multitrack audio. The official release has some major flaws.

I really dislike the mixes on the official HB. The way it was mixed and the reverb used makes it sound hollow and weak. Especially the drums. It is really lacking in low end too. Mid 1980's production and mixing values don't work woth material from the 60's.

Then there are LMF vocals 'flown in' from the AL tapes that stick out like a sore thumb considering how much his vocals had changed by the AL concerts. I think they should reissue it and use the original vocals. Any mic pops and static could easily be removed or at least mitigated with modern technology, something much more difficult 23 years ago. The original LMH vocals (heard on he aud tape) or so much better. The FOF mix of The End is MUCH better..

Then here is the fake overdubbed siren used in Unknown Soilder, no HILY and missing Spanish Caravan intro and IIRC gtr overdubs in Moonlight Drive and some AL vocals flown in from WTMO.

I think they should take the raw footage and re-assemble the show from scratch. This time the entire show complete cheathing where neccessary in spots where there is poor coverage. Bonus material can be a few songs put together with alt angles.

I'd aslo love to see that cheesy exploding Doors logo dropped and the tacky "Jim Morrison - vocals", "John Densmore - drums" etc obscuring the (IIRC) intro to WTMO.

Post by **hardrockcafe** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:29 am

Chris M wrote:Absolutely should be restored. I'm surprised they haven't considering they have the raw footage and multitrack audio. The official release has some major flaws.

I really dislike the mixes on the official HB. The way it was mixed and the reverb used makes it sound hollow and weak. Especially the drums. It is really lacking in low end too. Mid 1980's production and mixing values don't work woth material from the 60's.

Then there are LMF vocals 'flown in' from the AL tapes that stick out like a sore thumb considering how much his vocals had changed by the AL concerts. I think they should reissue it and use the original vocals. Any mic pops and static could easily be removed or at least mitigated with modern technology, something much more difficult 23 years ago. The original LMH vocals (heard on he aud tape) or so much better. The FOF mix of The End is MUCH better..

Then here is the fake overdubbed siren used in Unknown Soilder, no HILY and missing Spanish Caravan intro and IIRC gtr overdubs in Moonlight Drive and some AL vocals flown in from WTMO.

I think they should take the raw footage and re-assemble the show from scratch. This time the entire show complete cheathing where neccessary in spots where there is poor coverage. Bonus material can be a few songs put together with alt angles.

I'd aslo love to see that cheesy exploding Doors logo dropped and the tacky "Jim Morrison - vocals", "John Densmore - drums" etc obscuring the (IIRC) intro to WTMO.

Well said. I remember that awful sounding joke of a Hollywood Bowl CD they issued in 87 - only a handful of tracks and awful sound quality.

They should also do a new hi definition transfer of the original 16mm film elements prior to re-editing the show. I wonder if it's possible to undo the slow motion effects or if the camera man actually use the slo mo mode when filming. I suppose they could speed it up digitally.

Post by **StrangeNightOfStone** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:55 pm

How do you all think the Hollywood Bowl performance rates compared to the Singer Bowl performance? In my opinion the Doors were SO much better at the Singer Bowl...

Post by **michl** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:00 pm

they should release everything new what we do not know yet !! nothing against a complete hoolywood bowl release

Coolest would be a complete Isle of Wight DVD !

Post by **Lauren** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:09 pm

michl wrote:they should release everything new what we do not know yet !! nothing against a complete hoolywood bowl release Coolest would be a complete Isle of Wight DVD !

I think that may be just a little while.....I would probably not hold your breath on it

Post by **Buda** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:23 pm

Actually I was and guess still thinking about a revision of the official dvd having the audience source too (with missing songs or a possible matrix sound on the table) so I bet it would be just as highly essential as the Roundhouse footage revisit but I guess its (RH) too expensive for even the Doors camp to invest in and thats why they are not even planning doing it for years/decades but with today's digital remastering possibilities at hand, if they'd want, they could present it in colour.

Post by **wha happened** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:44 pm

The Singer Bowl blew it out of the water, but given the fact this is the only complete concert they have from '68, it needs to be restored and released. A deluxe set including alternate angles and photos would be cool. Going back and listening to my copy of the Spanish Caravan intro they edited out, there is nothing wrong with the audio from that section.

Post by **lizardkingteo** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:35 pm

can you clarify by saying the only show that have in its complete form audio or video?

Post by **wha happened** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:44 pm

I was talking about footage. I don't think the Roundhouse shows are complete. They probably were at one time, but I think the Doors only have copies of what was used by Granada. There's some nice chunks of concerts..Cleveland, Singer Bowl, San Jose, but I meant footage with sb or multi track audio.
I suppose you could also refer to audio as well. What other shows do they have from '68 with crisp audio? I don't know if they worked out a deal yet for Stockholm.

Post by **theyreawasteoftime** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:19 am

i'd like to see the full thing released. that version of the end is great

Post by **lizardkingteo** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:04 am

i thought they were taping parts of the singer bowl for FoF .who has the whole tape ? Paul ? thats why they used so much singer bowl footage for WYS .
also Greg you said something about releasing ano official release with different angles ,so the Sb was filmed from another taper ,do you know who is it ?
i ve heard the SB and its a great concert imo despite the riot and the cursings in there and thats something to wait to see in a official dvd release ...or not

Post by **wha happened** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:29 pm

Yes, I said they were filming parts of those concerts for FOF, but they do not have the entire SB. The ONLY show filmed in it's entirety (by the Doors) was the HB. The reels that Paul was using were not very long. I don't remember what he said? Maybe they were 15-20min reels? Starting and stopping to get certain shots, but not one continuous shot. The Doors have this footage. They were on a budget with FOF, so maybe they were only using x amount of film for each location? Maybe Paul can shed more light on this.

I was talking about releasing the HB using the alt. angles, because they had multiple cameras for that one.

Post by **StrangeNightOfStone** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:52 pm

At the very least, they should release the audio of 'Hello I Love You'...

Post by **hardrockcafe** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:26 am

At some point, they should consider issuing a Blu Ray of the complete performance, re-edited.

The 1987 release probably had it's 16mm film elements transferred to u-matic tape (standard back in the day) for editing at horizontal resolution of a mere 330 lines. Remember this was intended in 1987 for release on consumer grade VHS tape, which yielded only 240 lines of low resolution visual information.

Fast forward to 2009. If they digitally scanned the original source 16mm reels at several thousand lines of resolution, created a new edit digitally, color corrected digitally, cleansed the print digitally, and then downsampled the final edit to 1080 lines for Blu Ray, the results could look quite stunning visually. It would be a snap to remove lint, scratches and imperfections digitally compared to the primitive and even barbaric technology available back in 1987 for home video production.

Add to this a high resolution 5.1 mix and you've got one hell of a great product to warrant a re-edit.

There were also some great suggestions by others here on this board of offering multiple camera angles on the Blu Ray disc. At a minimum the Blu Ray should be re-edited by an objective third party director. Manzarek's 1987 edit leaves things to be desired. Incomplete and somewhat indulgent.

The slow mo photography (probably done in-camera back in 1968 by increasing the filming speed) is quite dated and could be corrected digitally to run at normal speed.

Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:58 am

Clearly the Singer Bowl was a FAR better performance than the Hollywood Bowl.....but how did the Hollywood Bowl gig rate compared to the other Doors performances from the spring and summer of 68'?

One of the greatest Doors shows from 68' was at the Back Bay Theatre in Boston in March....

Interesting how, like the later Hollywood Bowl performance of 'The End', Jim incorperated 'The accident outside' poem during 'The End' in Boston...

"Have you seen the accident outside
seven people took a ride
six bachelors, and their bride...
seven people......took a ride
seven people DIED...."

Oddly enough Jim chose not to sing the 'Seven People died' line at the Hollywood bowl- YET that line was in the lyrics in the official illustrated lyrics book (the one with Paris Blues)

Was 'The Accident outside' poem performed during 'The End' at the Singer Bowl?

Post by **wha happened** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:13 am

No, but it was in Hawaii '70

Post by **dj_vera** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:50 am

wha happened wrote:No, but it was in Hawaii '70

oh so that's what was cut out

Post by **spyma2** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:21 am

StrangeNightOfStone wrote:How do you all think the Hollywood Bowl performance rates compared to the Singer Bowl performance? In my opinion the Doors were SO much better at the Singer Bowl...

I 100% agree with you The Singer Bowl performance is much better than the Hollywood Bowl, but the Hollywood Bowl setlist IMO is better. What also makes the Singer Bowl special is the "NEVER PERFORMED ON PUBLIC STAGE" version of Wild Child!!!!! I love that song!!!!

Post by **StrangeNightOfStone** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:48 am

spyma2 wrote:
StrangeNightOfStone wrote:How do you all think the Hollywood Bowl performance rates compared to the Singer Bowl performance? In my opinion the Doors were SO much better at the Singer Bowl...
I 100% agree with you The Singer Bowl performance is much better than the Hollywood Bowl, but the Hollywood Bowl setlist IMO is better. What also makes the Singer Bowl special is the "NEVER PERFORMED ON PUBLIC STAGE" version of Wild Child!!!!! I love that song!!!!

I always wondered if Jim said that in reference to 'Wild Child', or to the many poems recited during WTMO....

Post by **coopenstein** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:55 am

Singer's Bowl is waaay more interesting than Hollywood Bowl,
however I would welcome a welldone remastered version of HB... with the surviving different camera angles, audio of HILY, bonus photos, etc...
But a DVD release of IOW -70 would be more interesting.

Post by **Beauvoir** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:30 pm

I'd like both the Hollywood Bowl and Singer Bowl shows to come out eventually!

But thats just me....

Post by **dj_vera** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:59 am

Beauvoir wrote:I'd like both the Hollywood Bowl and Singer Bowl shows to come out eventually!

But thats just me....

same

Post by **StrangeNightOfStone** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:07 am

Lets compare the setlists (songs and poetry)-

Friday, July 5th, 1968
Hollywood Bowl - Hollywood, CA

1. When The Music's Over
2. Alabama Song/ Back Door Man/Five To One/Backdoor man
3. Hello, I Love You
4. Moonlight Drive/Horse Latitudes
5. A Little Game/The Hill Dwellers
6. Spanish Caravan
7. Wake Up/Light My Fire
8. The Unknown Soldier
9. The End/ Accident Outside/ Grasshopper/ Ensenada/The End

Singer Bowl setlist:

August 2nd, 1968
The Singer Bowl - N.Y.

1. Back Door Man/Five To One
2. Break On Through
3. When The Music's Over/ Vast Radiant Beach/Dawn's Highway/ The Royal Sperm/When The Music's Over

4. Wild Child
5. Wake Up/Light My Fire
6. The End/ Fall Down Now/ I'm Coming, I Hear You Calling-/ The Creature's Nursing It's Child/Don't Come Here, Don't Come In/Ensenada/The End

How would you all rate 'The End' from Hollywood Bowl vs 'The End' from the Singer Bowl?

The Singer Bowl was good...but pales in comparison to my favorite early '68 Doors gig, at the Back Bay Theatre in Boston, MA

March 17th, 1968.
Back Bay Theater - Boston, MA
LATE SHOW:

1. When The Music's Over
2. Back Door Man/Five To One/ Backdoor Man
3. Break On Through/There You Sit/Break On Through
4. Love Me Two Times
5. You're Lost, Little Girl
6. Light My Fire
7. The End/Across The Sea/ Accident Outside/My Name Is The Holy Sha/Ensenda/The End

Post by **dj_vera** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:14 am

Both versions of The End are good. The Hollywood Bowl version is much more polished in my opinion, while the Singer Bowl version has more poetic improve and blood curdling screams from Jim, which is always a delight to hear!

Post by **StrangeNightOfStone** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:15 am

dj_vera wrote:Both versions of The End are good. The Hollywood Bowl version is much more polished in my opinion, while the Singer Bowl version has more poetic improve and blood curdling screams from Jim, which is always a delight to hear!

How do the Hollywood Bowl and Singer Bowl versions of 'The End' compare to the version performed at the Back Bay Theatre?

Post by **dj_vera** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:25 am

StrangeNightOfStone wrote:
How do the Hollywood Bowl and Singer Bowl versions of 'The End' compare to the version performed at the Back Bay Theatre?

The version from Boston '68 is really good and does indeed have similarities to both of the 'Bowl' versions. Boston '68's version of The End has a similar 'Accident' improv section like we've heard from the HB recording and it kinda has the same intensity as the Singer Bowl version (sans the riot). Overall Boston '68 is one of the best shows from '68 and is probably the closest we'll get to Fillmore East for a while.

Post by **Beauvoir** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:32 am

Bring 'em on BM!

Post by **wha happened** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:40 pm

Singer Bowl is much better than the Hollywood Bowl. I also prefer The End from the Singer Bowl. The HB version is good, but it reminds me of Detroit or the Isle Of Wight. They all had potential but something is missing? They either never got off the ground, or fall apart halfway through.
Boston is really good, but it's hard to choose between that and the Singer Bowl. They're both intense shows.
My favorite version of The End is from the Matrix.