Should the Hollywood Bowl audio be restored?

Post by **Beauvoir** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:16 am

Is the audience tape of the Hollywood Bowl show easily found?

I think I need it as a companion to the new official release.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Post by **Porsche** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:45 pm

Beauvoir wrote:
Encuentro wrote: Botnick said in the special features that the vocal for HILY was pieced together from various performances, a word here, a word there. This obviously isn't true. The vocal is from the studio version. Was this a mistake or deliberately misleading?
IMO he's lying.

I've rewatched this segment and, to me, I think it's an editing choice that makes it look like Botnick is lying. Because he makes it clear that he wants to be honest with fans and tell them they had to use some audio tricks to recreate Jim's vocal in places and even to recreate the environment of the Bowl so the sound wasn't too dry. To think he would then contradict himself so blatantly by making up where he got the HILY vocal doesn't make sense.

If you watch the bonus feature again, you'll notice everyone starts to talk about re-inserting HILY into the film. Then they cut to Botnick who doesn't mention the song at all and he says Jim's mic cut out so he had to go through several live performances such as Pittsburgh or Philadelphia to find portions that would work. I'm pretty sure he's talking about WTMO at that time not HILY but whoever edited the video didn't think it was an important distinction. Then at the end they show Ray saying they were able to bring the vocals back which is just a complete misunderstanding on his part regarding what Botnick actually did.

I'm blaming whoever made this bonus feature for editing this segment in such a way that it's unclear that Botnick used a studio vocal for HILY. Botnick wouldn't have just made up that he used bits from live performances for that track when he knows they don't have a live version. At least I hope he wouldn't.

Post by **Beauvoir** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:09 pm

Porsche wrote:Then at the end they show Ray saying they were able to bring the vocals back which is just a complete misunderstanding on his part regarding what Botnick actually did.

I noticed Ray saying that as well, showing he's not really aware of what was done in post-production at all!

Post by **hardrockcafe** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:46 pm

Porsche wrote: Because he makes it clear that he wants to be honest with fans and tell them they had to use some audio tricks to recreate Jim's vocal in places and even to recreate the environment of the Bowl so the sound wasn't too dry.

Dry is not necessarily bad. I got the CD and think the reverb approach Botnick used makes this sound a little too wet - it kind of blurs and "fogs" the timbre of voice and instruments.

Post by **mystery_train67** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:16 am

Why did they fly in Robbys guitar parts and Rays backing harmonies from the studio cut then? Robby must have played the worst gig of his life at the Bowl, but HILY is a good performance. Plus it just doesn't sound real to me. The only thing which does sound real from that song are the drums, gibson, piano bass, and a couple of little vocals from Jim at the end.

Post by **hardrockcafe** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:52 am

There are also some Manzarek vocal overdubs. Example - Alabama Song: 1:12 - 1:27. Manzarek's overdubbed vocals are panned hard left.

Botnick's liner notes indicate that Ray and Jim's native vocals were combined on one track of the 8 track tape (instead of separate tracks). Therefore, when Jim's native vocals are panned in the center, and we hear Ray's vocals panned to the side of the stereo image -- there's some Manzarek vocal overdubbin' goin' on!

Post by **Encuentro** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:16 pm

Porsche wrote: Anyone catch the audience members requesting "The Soft Parade" after WTMO? Odd, for a show that happened a year before the album was released. Another hidden AL overdub! Hehe.

I just listened to that section and didn't hear it. It's a very short interlude. Could it have been during the intro to Alabama Song? I heard what sounded like someone calling for The Soft Parade, but it wasn't clear.

Post by **Silver Forest** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:38 pm

Evidently Ray was proposing to the rest of the band to rehearse a new and interesting tune they had been developing since the previous week.

Post by **Porsche** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:48 pm

Encuentro wrote:
Porsche wrote:Anyone catch the audience members requesting "The Soft Parade" after WTMO? Odd, for a show that happened a year before the album was released. Another hidden AL overdub! Hehe.
I just listened to that section and didn't hear it. It's a very short interlude. Could it have been during the intro to Alabama Song? I heard what sounded like someone calling for The Soft Parade, but it wasn't clear.

Yeah, after WTMO, during the opening of "Alabama Song" a few fans call for "The Soft Parade." You don't hear them in the original video mix.

Post by **Encuentro** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:08 pm

Porsche wrote:
Encuentro wrote:
Porsche wrote:Anyone catch the audience members requesting "The Soft Parade" after WTMO? Odd, for a show that happened a year before the album was released. Another hidden AL overdub! Hehe.
I just listened to that section and didn't hear it. It's a very short interlude. Could it have been during the intro to Alabama Song? I heard what sounded like someone calling for The Soft Parade, but it wasn't clear.
Yeah, after WTMO, during the opening of "Alabama Song" a few fans call for "The Soft Parade." You don't hear them in the original video mix.

Thanks. Strange that Bruce would dub in audience noise under the intro to Alabama Song.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the audience laughter after the line "Six bachelors and their bride" seems different. It comes in before Jim finishes the word "bride."

Post by **midnightx** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:11 am

mystery_train67 wrote:Why did they fly in Robbys guitar parts and Rays backing harmonies from the studio cut then? Robby must have played the worst gig of his life at the Bowl, but HILY is a good performance. Plus it just doesn't sound real to me. The only thing which does sound real from that song are the drums, gibson, piano bass, and a couple of little vocals from Jim at the end.

Yeah, to me, HILY contains a lot more than Morrison's vocals from the studio master. If other "studio instrumentation" is added to the live version of HILY, what is the point of including it at all? The authentic, live feel is not there on that track.

Post by **The Royal Sperm** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:55 pm

posted on facebook:

Fun Fact: In order to restore the lost audio to Jim’s performance on “Hello, I love You” at the Bowl, Bruce Botnick took bits and pieces from other performances and pieced them back together to match the video from the Hollywood Bowl.

Post by **Buda** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:56 am

...and they consider this as a "fun fact". heh

Post by **mystery_train67** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:24 am

But WHY replace the guitar on HILY? It just seems weird

Post by **marcelpilman** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:38 am

listen to Hello I Love You bootleg Tv Bleeding is the same. I think that what is real is the bowl robby guitar and John drums

Post by **miltonjumbee** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:54 am

Great find !!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjgoO0DorSw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSxozEdtg-w

Post by **The Royal Sperm** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:29 pm

indeed, nice observation

Post by **Porsche** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:55 pm

The Royal Sperm wrote:posted on facebook:
Fun Fact: In order to restore the lost audio to Jim’s performance on “Hello, I love You” at the Bowl, Bruce Botnick took bits and pieces from other performances and pieced them back together to match the video from the Hollywood Bowl.

Reason #999 you shouldn't let the interns run your official Facebook page.

Post by **avp2029** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:02 am

Here's something I made for you all tonight. It only took me about 20 minutes using Audacity. This is how it should have been done for the CD/Blu-ray. See if you notice the difference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_TjFPYuHcg

Post by **hardrockcafe** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:50 am

avp2029 wrote:Here's something I made for you all tonight. It only took me about 20 minutes using Audacity. This is how it should have been done for the CD/Blu-ray. See if you notice the difference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_TjFPYuHcg

Scream before the guitar break.

Post by **Garlon** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:40 pm

Good job adding in the scream. You really can't tell that it's even from th audience tape. So it was really a huge fail on their part not to add it in.

There is simply no quality control with their releases. Botnick totally butchered WTMO too.

Post by **avp2029** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:02 am

Let's just say I was able to "re-create and dig out of those tracks Jim Morrison's vocal and you hear it as if you were at the Hollywood Bowl onstage..."

Post by **Garlon** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:23 pm

If you watch the bonus materials on Live at the Bowl '68, Botnick says how the people who remastered the film footage synched up every frame of film from every angle BEFORE they synched the final audio mix and obviously before they made the final edit of the film. This means it would not have been a significant effort for them to provide us with the multi-angle feature that DVD/Blu Ray supports. They already had the alternate angles synched, so why not put it on the disc?

Post by **Roughie** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:34 pm

Garlon wrote:If you watch the bonus materials on Live at the Bowl '68, Botnick says how the people who remastered the film footage synched up every frame of film from every angle BEFORE they synched the final audio mix and obviously before they made the final edit of the film. This means it would not have been a significant effort for them to provide us with the multi-angle feature that DVD/Blu Ray supports. They already had the alternate angles synched, so why not put it on the disc?

Cause this is The Doors!

Post by **miltonjumbee** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:39 pm

We understand better the densmore's fears .
A concert like that ... It was direct in urgence for Jimbo.

Hendrix Live Hollywood Bowl Los Angeles 9/14/68 !!!!

I imagine the show with a swimming pool in front of Morrison.

Post by **Buda** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:36 pm

That's amazing. Reading this date in his tour log I would have never imagined that it went down like this. What a night that could have been at the Bowl. Is there any recording made there?

Post by **lizardkingteo** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:37 pm

isnt that kind of dangerous ? i mean you can see cables right in fron of the pool .

On the other hand , taking a bath in a hot day at the hills , watching the hollywood sign , while hearing Hendrix . Priceless

Post by **miltonjumbee** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:32 pm

Noel Redding started making announcements that he was afraid he’d get electrocuted with his bass if the water brothers didn’t stop splashing. Mitch Mitchell left the drums to offer his towel and a hand up to a few waterlogged waders.

Post by **dj_vera** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:46 pm

I was wondering if anyone could rip the bonus feature from the DVD that talks about "restoring" the songs that weren't released originally on the '87 release, particularly the clips of HILY and Texas Radio that have the native audio intact. My DVD player isn't working on my desktop at the moment, otherwise I wouldn't ask. I'd even be ok w/just the audio.

Post by **desertlizard** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:46 pm

just got mine, too bad i dont ve a Bluray system until christmas