Should the Hollywood Bowl audio be restored?

[Porsche]

Texas Radio appears to use vocal overdubs from the alt WASP track that was just released on the 40th anniversary L.A. Woman release! Isn't Danish TV multitrack, couldn't they have just used that version of Texas Radio instead for vocal dubs? Also it appears WTMO uses vocal dubs from Aquarius Late instead of the early show this time around.

I believe Danish TV is a mono track that Rothchild added instrumentation to on 'Alive She Cried' to make it stereo. They definitely didn't use any multitrack source on the WYS soundtrack. It sounds worse than the version ripped from DVD. But at least they had an outtake they could use for "Texas Radio." With headphones, you can still hear Jim's original vocal very faintly in the background saying "...far shore."

I'm not gonna be down on them for having to make this hybridization. What else were they going to do with such a damaged audio track? The audience tape is too poor quality to be used as the main audio. I would've liked it if they included it as a bonus or maybe if they added the original damaged audio track so fans like us can appreciate how much of the show had to be restored, but it's not going to make or break the release for me. I'm more disappointed that we aren't getting the original full screen footage or the ability to change angles since that was mentioned early on as a possibility.

Bluray is less than a week away now....fingers crossed.

[Garlon]

I don't want to get this thread off track, but just wanted to comment on the Danish TV tracks.

I could have sworm I once read an article that had an interview with Rothchild saying that they did indeed get a 4-track recording of the Danish TV performance, but I could be mistaken.

However, check out Love Me Two Times on In Concert and on the DVD. On the In Concert source Ray's first keyboard riff comes in at the 5 second mark, but on the actual performance on the DVD Ray doesn't come until later, about 9 sec. This could be just an overdub in which Ray came to the studio and did one little keyboard riff, BUT to me it sounds exactly like they copy/pasted that first keyboard riff from the actual performance which was around the 9 second mark. If it was a mono source they wouldn't have been able to extract only ray's keyboard and loop it one extra time. I also don't think Paul would bother to ask Ray to come into the studio to record a 5sec overdub. Plus it'd be a hassle to get the exact same sound as that performance I would think. I would think if Rothchild wanted that keyboard to come in sooner he would have just made an easy edit from the multitrack.

I also think the balance of the instruments on In Concert is significantly different than the DVD, especially the drums. I don't think a stereo expansion would account for that.

I would not be surprised if that actual Danish TV multitrack is sitting in the archive and they don't even know about it.

I could be wrong though about all of this.

[dj_vera]

They either sped up the speed or tempo for Texas Radio/LMTT on Alive She Cried. For a while I actually thought Danish TV was off-tempo, but in actuality I think they just played a laid-back set. I have actually noticed that most of Alive She Cried, and even some songs on Absolutely Live (the AQ tracks) are tempo-adjusted.

[Porsche]

I could have sworm I once read an article that had an interview with Rothchild saying that they did indeed get a 4-track recording of the Danish TV performance, but I could be mistaken.

However, check out Love Me Two Times on In Concert and on the DVD. On the In Concert source Ray's first keyboard riff comes in at the 5 second mark, but on the actual performance on the DVD Ray doesn't come until later, about 9 sec. This could be just an overdub in which Ray came to the studio and did one little keyboard riff, BUT to me it sounds exactly like they copy/pasted that first keyboard riff from the actual performance which was around the 9 second mark. If it was a mono source they wouldn't have been able to extract only ray's keyboard and loop it one extra time. I also don't think Paul would bother to ask Ray to come into the studio to record a 5sec overdub. Plus it'd be a hassle to get the exact same sound as that performance I would think. I would think if Rothchild wanted that keyboard to come in sooner he would have just made an easy edit from the multitrack.

I also think the balance of the instruments on In Concert is significantly different than the DVD, especially the drums. I don't think a stereo expansion would account for that.

I would not be surprised if that actual Danish TV multitrack is sitting in the archive and they don't even know about it.

I see what you mean, and you're right that prior releases don't tell us what The Doors might have in their archive -- they apparently always had the OV/FC masters yet for some reason used a needledrop of "Tightrope Ride" on the '97 box set. But what you're hearing on 'Alive She Cried' are just clever overdubs. Rothchild was a master at it. If he was working with multis, he would have mixed the organ and guitar into separate channels like the AL tracks on that album. He had to keep them in mono like the original recording so it would sound right. Rothchild added some reverb and put some extra percussion in there to give it a stereo effect, then he had all three guys double their instruments.

[Roughie]

I've given up on wondering what they do or don't or might or might not have. Not worth the brain power. I only have limited supply after all!

[Garlon]

Porsche - you're right, the keyboard isn't on the left and guitar on the right like other live tracks. However, I wonder if the master recording, if they did ever acquire one, was a 2-track with one track of the instruments and one track of vocals? That could explain why it seems like it is a different mix on Alive She Cried than on the DVD and yet still seem to be in mono. It would also be practical for the TV studio to record the performance in that manner so they could mix it better before broadcasting it.

I know you've said before that you don't like the mix on that performance, but if they mixed it to mono like that as it was being performed then it's really one of the better direct live to mono mixes you could hope to hear, especially from that era.

[The Royal Sperm]

the sticker is awesome!



the entire legendary live show!

btw, looks like a digipack .....

[Roughie]

the sticker is awesome!



the entire legendary live show!

btw, looks like a digipack .....

A red sticker? Silver is better!

[BallroomDays67]

They had a lot of unused red ink from the cancelled "L.A Woman" Super Deluxe Edition, so it was used for the sticker.

[Silver Forest]

the sticker is awesome!



the entire legendary live show!

btw, looks like a digipack .....

A red sticker? Silver is better!

Yes, I know I'm better

...(than a sticker )

So, a real big red one. Wow. I see the interaction between management and promotion people is reaching perfection. They are losing their heads and spoiling fans.

[Silver Forest]

They had a lot of unused red ink from the cancelled "L.A Woman" Super Deluxe Edition, so it was used for the sticker.

A marvellous (highly likely) theory!

[cutis]

You know what's missing from the FOF footage? Or at least the footage that made it into the FOF film?

there's just not enough interaction shown between fans and the band.

You've got a great sequence with Jim touring the Singer bowl and getting his locks of hair yanked on by fans, that's a cool sequence.

Then you've got the whole conversation with the priest, backstage. That's cool.

You've got Jim playing a piano homage to Nietzche. That's cool.

And that's it for me. I would have loved MORE, MUCH MORE, interaction of the band with people at the concert.

I mean, we're talking this is supposed to be about a band "on the road" touring.

And yet we get too little interaction of the band with their audience.

I would have directed Morrison to plunge himself into the audience and film it! Get him to interact more with his audience. Feature footage of the band impacting the audience and hearing more from fans.

We get just too little.

Look at what we have here. The only known live footage of Harrison Ford and Jim Morrison in the same frame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_NhuteVTB8

Never noticed this before.

Here's a better video outlining all The Doors clips where you can see Harrison Ford: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_qIkQLefHc

It was posted in the previous page of this thread by MajorMojo but got mixed into the other discussion about the upcoming Bowl release.

[Mystery Train]

All the bowl stuff was released today in Europe. Had the cd in my hands, it's a digipack... Dvd was not delivered in the shops I went to, too bad!

[lizardkingteo]

All the bowl stuff was released today in Europe. Had the cd in my hands, it's a digipack... Dvd was not delivered in the shops I went to, too bad!

Really ? where did you go ?

[Mystery Train]

All the bowl stuff was released today in Europe. Had the cd in my hands, it's a digipack... Dvd was not delivered in the shops I went to, too bad!

Really ? where did you go ?

Well, if it helps, I went to Media Markt and Thalia here in Basel (Switzerland). But I didn't buy the CD.

[lizardkingteo]

Ok i was really curious and went to my local store too. So i just returned and got in my hands both CD and Blu Ray. Havent heard it or watched the blu ray but first opinions by looking at them :

CD : Tell me weird but i love digipacks .Secondly i just hate the colouration , Jim is like pale dead in the cover.I read the booklet ( one unseen piture where jim is given a cigarette from a fan ) .The notes are ok . They at least explained that they used other AL vocals to match Jims damaged vocals in the recording .

Blu Ray : same pale dead cover . other side worst colouration as the fron cover . Notes are very good ( some stories same as the booklet CD ) but overall nice.

I see again some special thanks to Len!!! congrats Len , i am sure your contributions helped a lot the management . !


I will watch it later tonogiht . Although i ws not very excited for all the previous reasons mentioned here , i still got some enthusiasm watching/listening to it again

[The Royal Sperm]

Ok i was really curious and went to my local store too. So i just returned and got in my hands both CD and Blu Ray. Havent heard it or watched the blu ray but first opinions by looking at them :

CD : Tell me weird but i love digipacks .Secondly i just hate the colouration , Jim is like pale dead in the cover.I read the booklet ( one unseen piture where jim is given a cigarette from a fan ) .The notes are ok . They at least explained that they used other AL vocals to match Jims damaged vocals in the recording .

Blu Ray : same pale dead cover . other side worst colouration as the fron cover . Notes are very good ( some stories same as the booklet CD ) but overall nice.

I see again some special thanks to Len!!! congrats Len , i am sure your contributions helped a lot the management . !


I will watch it later tonogiht . Although i ws not very excited for all the previous reasons mentioned here , i still got some enthusiasm watching/listening to it again

yes teo, you're weird!

i'm really curious about the "extra" material on the BD

[antero]

I see again some special thanks to Len!!! congrats Len , i am sure your contributions helped a lot the management . !

[miltonjumbee]

Unseen pic into the cd !!!

[miltonjumbee]

With french sticker !

[lovemygirl]

...i picked up my copy of the blu-ray and CD late last night...

In the Blu-ray booklet theres a nice article written by bruce botnick....some nice little stories are included, like how the doors rehearsed the show and worked out the sequence and arrangements in advance - a rarity. and once again he mentions jim drop'n LSD before the show... it was late last night so i didn't take any notes about the perfeormance or the extras... tonight i'll watch it again and take some notes and add some more insights later...

Im glad to finally have the complete show on CD, even with the fly in vocals...its not perfect but with the doors what ever is?

[lizardkingteo]

I just watched the complete blu ray including the extras .

I must say i enjoyed the show , it was like seeing it with another perspective ( not like the first time ) but i hadnt seen it in quite a while .

Some really nice unseen footage. the overall quality is indeed excellent . They did a very nice job remastering the footage and in the extras they explain how was it done.

About the sound quality havent listened to the cd but i enjoyed it( except the bad lip synch in HILY) .

Well Bruce really explains WHY and how did he do these dubs and i can now understand why. I really admire that they did admit it and explained in the extras why there was dubs from other concerts in HILY , Texas and WTMO .

Extras :
the three extras of the interviews are nice and quite insightful to why they did what they did with the audio/video tapes they had . Plus some nice stories from Ray , Robby , John, Bruce and Frank .

the other 3 extras (wild child , lmf and gloria ) i would say that were completely irrelevant with the rest and were quite bad , not a restoration , nothing , its just like youtube videos thrown in the HB related package. Why did they do this really ? It really showed that they made it for filling the extras a bit more .

I really would prefer if they didnt include at all these 3 extras or if they could include some other related extras , like more processing and mastering the footage or some other interviews from Paul and more Frank . a nice picture of their vault would be nice too

Overall , didnt have high expectations for this but it was a nice addition , not anything mind blowing .

[miltonjumbee]

I just watched the full blu ray too. I agree with you.
This is a complete rediscovery of the show. It is a pleasure to see these stunning images and seem so close to us, is perfect remasterisarion slightly saturated. We really lives the concert !!!!
The sound is like the cd, the sync is borked for HILY !

Bonus Level some disappointments nothing new docs, not Mick Jagger, no new or rare photos.

"Echoes from The Bowl" is interesting historical perspective of the site .
Special Mention Bruce on the bonus "Reworking The Doors" where he explains how he "restored" the HILY, Texas Radio ... he took in lives, in LA WOMEN falls short, he has reproduced the work of Paulo, with honesty he show the work done, it's disappointing but certainly useful to keep the unit .

[Buda]

Thanks fellas for informing us about your experiences. Great both of you liked the "film" and it is quite enjoyable. That's what it counts isn't it, so we can make a nice audience version using it

[The Royal Sperm]

With french sticker !

i must have it! ha!

regarding the comments about extras, is really good to know that they told the true about the dubs and some technical details

[Porsche]

I see again some special thanks to Len!!! congrats Len , i am sure your contributions helped a lot the management . !

News to me! Thanks for the heads up. And thanks for the early reviews, guys.

Here's a new clip of LMF: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QNBLC8NVT8

Also, for all you collectors, I just found out that Wal-Mart will have an exclusive "super jewel box" version of the DVD release. I believe it's the same content as the regular DVD, but instead of being in a tall black plastic case like a normal DVD, it's in a clear jewel case similar to a CD. It's also a little cheaper. Just a heads up for anyone who wants to collect all the different versions or get it for a little less.

[The Royal Sperm]

I see again some special thanks to Len!!! congrats Len , i am sure your contributions helped a lot the management . !

News to me! Thanks for the heads up. And thanks for the early reviews, guys.

Here's a new clip of LMF: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QNBLC8NVT8

Also, for all you collectors, I just found out that Wal-Mart will have an exclusive "super jewel box" version of the DVD release. I believe it's the same content as the regular DVD, but instead of being in a tall black plastic case like a normal DVD, it's in a clear jewel case similar to a CD. It's also a little cheaper. Just a heads up for anyone who wants to collect all the different versions or get it for a little less.

yeah len, congrats!

thanks for the link.

so, super jewel case? ¬¬

[Porsche]

so, super jewel case? ¬¬

It's the first I've heard of it. I tried finding images of other releases in that kind of case and saw some that were the size of a CD and others that were the size of a DVD. Maybe some are CD/DVD combos and that's why they're smaller. Here's an image I found that will give you an idea:

[The Royal Sperm]

yeah, i know that box, is similar to the 2004 DVD-A release of L.a.woman, just a little bit larger, thanks

[Garlon]

The edits made to Jim's vocals on WTMO are terrible. They should have used Paul Rothchild's original edits. Paul chose better vocal bytes to make the fixes and he synched them correctly.

I'm not sure what they did on Texas Radio. It's a mish mash of at least 3 different sources, some of it sounds like the bowl, some from la woman sessions, and some of it I'm not sure. I'll have to give it another listen.

Spanish Caravan has all new guitar overdubs from Robby. I don't know why they didn't use his original performance.

I think there must be a better copy of Wild CHild Smother Brothers out there than what they used. Touch Me On Dance on Fire looks greta, but Wild CHild looks so dull and grainy. Maybe it's the lighting, I don't know. The audio on it seems staticky too, like it's clipping.

Light My Fire from Winters is mastered correctly. Probably as good as it can get.

Gloria is of course the old video from the 1980's. I don't know if they ever made a film print of it when they created the master, but this was definitely mastered from a vhs source because it is low definition AND get this, there is an audio dropout because the copy they used was either bad or the vhs player they used had bad tracking. And of course since there is no quality control nobody bothered to fix it. Oh yeah, it's in mono too instead of stereo. I was looking forward to at least getting that single version in high quality stereo, instead we got a flawed mono version.