Should the Hollywood Bowl audio be restored?

Post by **hardrockcafe** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:56 pm

The single was released in June 68 and WFTS was released in July 68. So maybe Rothchild recorded Jim reciting TRATBB voice only in June for potential inclusion?

Post by **Buda** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:43 pm

Thanks Mark for the quote. It is interesting that LA Woman actually have more leftovers than I expected. L'America was also written months before, not intended at all for this album if I'm right. Hyacinth House also being an earlier outtake ('68?), Crawling King Snake a long time cover that is, and now finding out that WASP was already considered in 1968, it puts LAW in another perspective a bit. In some cases using fillers usually have its bad effects but in case of the Doors, the album turned out powerful enough that these fillers are not bringing down its merits. Put these four guys in a studio and they could still make magic during late '70 as well.

Post by **Roughie** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:53 pm

Not surprised that Texas Radio was considered back in 68.

Post by **midnightx** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:25 pm

I'm disappointed that the possibility exists that Robby may have overdubbed new guitar parts for Spanish Caravan. I suppose if the original tape is damaged or missing music, I can see the argument for adding new music, but if it was just to polish the performance, that is a real problem.

Post by **Buda** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:38 pm

Roughie wrote:Not surprised that Texas Radio was considered back in 68.

Well, they performed it at Danish TV but Jim's intention to include it on WFTS is surprising to me.

I agree with you midnightx.

Post by **Silver Forest** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:21 am

Buda wrote:
Roughie wrote:Not surprised that Texas Radio was considered back in 68.
Well, they performed it at Danish TV but Jim's intention to include it on WFTS is surprising to me.

I agree with you midnightx.

I'm not surprised also. Conceptually, from what I remember reading, the album that at the end was called "Waiting for the sun" was supposed to have a very different structure. Jim wanted to include pieces of poetry in between songs. "Texas Radio and the big beat" is not very different than "Horse latitudes" or even "We could be so good together". A non-conventional approach to Jim's lyrics. The band was experimenting in a time in which experimentation was all around in music. It would have been interesting, although perhaps comercially a bad decision, if Jim's ideas would have been a put in practice in a finished record. A whole side with The "celebration of the lizard" would have been great.
So, I'm not surprised if pieces of poetry recorded and are still lying in some precious tapes.

Post by **midnightx** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:38 pm

I have always felt that a complete side dedicated to COTL would have been a tremendous creative statement. It is really a shame that idea did not come to fruition.

Also, I wonder if the band was recording various segments of the entire piece during the WFTS sessions and Not To Touch The Earth was all that was salvaged - or if after some rehearsals, Rothchild determined an entire recording of COTL was not happening and told the band to solely focus on Not To Touch The Earth.

Post by **Encuentro** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:19 pm

midnightx wrote:I have always felt that a complete side dedicated to COTL would have been a tremendous creative statement. It is really a shame that idea did not come to fruition.

Also, I wonder if the band was recording various segments of the entire piece during the WFTS sessions and Not To Touch The Earth was all that was salvaged - or if after some rehearsals, Rothchild determined an entire recording of COTL was not happening and told the band to solely focus on Not To Touch The Earth.

I get the sense that the latter is true. I doubt that COTL made it beyond the demo stage. They probably decided to focus on NTTTE after COTL was scrapped.

Post by **Silver Forest** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:09 pm

As far as I know there's only one entire recorded version of TCOTL. It is nice to listen but still a weak one. Especially comparing to the powerful live versions from Aquarius. The version released in Absolutely Live it's magnificient. There's some parts that from times to times I listen to myself trying to sing it while I drive.

Post by **Encuentro** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:56 pm

Silver Forest wrote:As far as I know there's only one entire recorded version of TCOTL. It is nice to listen but still a weak one. Especially comparing to the powerful live versions from Aquarius. The version released in Absolutely Live it's magnificient. There's some parts that from times to times I listen to myself trying to sing it while I drive.

That's the only studio version I'm aware of.

Does anybody know for sure if the choice to include Hello, I Love You on the album made before or after COTL was scrapped? Was HILY originally intended to be a part of the planned COTL album?

Post by **Silver Forest** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:15 pm

Encuentro wrote:
Silver Forest wrote:As far as I know there's only one entire recorded version of TCOTL. It is nice to listen but still a weak one. Especially comparing to the powerful live versions from Aquarius. The version released in Absolutely Live it's magnificient. There's some parts that from times to times I listen to myself trying to sing it while I drive.
That's the only studio version I'm aware of.

Does anybody know for sure if the choice to include Hello, I Love You on the album made before or after COTL was scrapped? Was HILY originally intended to be a part of the planned COTL album?

I'm not sure but I have the idea that it was Jac Holzman's son that was behind the recovery of HILY for the WFTS album. I don't know the details but probably he knew the song from the demo and for some reason he liked it. If this is true maybe someone here might know the details.

Post by **Encuentro** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:46 pm

Silver Forest wrote:
Encuentro wrote:
Silver Forest wrote:As far as I know there's only one entire recorded version of TCOTL. It is nice to listen but still a weak one. Especially comparing to the powerful live versions from Aquarius. The version released in Absolutely Live it's magnificient. There's some parts that from times to times I listen to myself trying to sing it while I drive.
That's the only studio version I'm aware of.

Does anybody know for sure if the choice to include Hello, I Love You on the album made before or after COTL was scrapped? Was HILY originally intended to be a part of the planned COTL album?
I'm not sure but I have the idea that it was Jac Holzman's son that was behind the recovery of HILY for the WFTS album. I don't know the details but probably he knew the song from the demo and for some reason he liked it. If this is true maybe someone here might know the details.

Thanks, SF. I've actually heard that story before. It's in Jac's book, Follow the Music. I'm just not sure if it took place before or after COTL was abandoned.

Post by **Encuentro** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:55 pm

Just got mine.

Post by **hardrockcafe** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:22 pm

Sound samples are up on iTunes. Strange crackle is heard on the clip of Texas Radio on the word "others." I wonder if that portion is from the live show and an example of some of the audio damage that couldn't be repaired.

Vocals seem low in the mix on Light My Fire. Strange. Seems like Jim hated Light My Fire by this point.

Really amateur stereo panning effects on the siren during Unknown Soldier.

On the plus side, tape hiss is heard -- no apparent digital noise reduction. That's good.

Post by **hardrockcafe** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:32 pm

Encuentro wrote:Just got mine.

Care to post photos of Botnick's liner notes?

Post by **hardrockcafe** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:42 pm

It also sounds like there is a bit more digital reverb on this new mix than the 80s version.

Post by **rokritr** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:43 am

lovemygirl wrote:....well bruce botnick says on the dvd bonus material that for some of the songs he had to piece jims vocals together from different shows. he said he took as little as one word from a show and put it all together to make a complete song. if this is indeed true, it must have taken alot of work....

The bonus footage about working with the audio does have Bruce pulling up and playing some damaged vocal tracks....and then he goes on to discuss what he had to do to make it all work.

Bruce says that for "Texas Radio," he used "some of his poetry from other live performances and put it in place and some outtakes from the 'L.A. Woman' album."

as for HILY, Bruce never mentions that it's the studio vocal he is using .....and then they cut to Ray, who says, "Bruce Botnick was able to re-create and dig out of those tracks Jim Morrison's vocal and you hear it as if you were at the Hollywood Bowl onstage with us."

for what it's worth....

Post by **Encuentro** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:59 am

I would post pics if I could, but unfortunately my computer has crashed. I'm typing this from my iPod. I don't know how to post pics with an iPod. Sorry.

Anyway, I just finished watching. Overall, I enjoyed it. As HRC mentioned, there was a lot of reverb. I wasn't sure when watching whether it was a genuine echo from the bowl of it was simulated for effect. The sound was awesome, and it was very interesting seeing the many different camera angles. It was cool to see Jim charge the mic at the beginning of WTMO. That angle wasn't present in the original edit. I'm not familiar with the audience recording, so I didn't know that the intro was even longer than the 80s release. I could have done with Jim's slow motion jump when he screams "NOW!". They replaced many of the vocals and guitar that I didn't even know we're dubbed in the first time around. I understand, but don't agree with, the decision to dub in some of Robby's guitar parts. His playing was pretty subpar throughout. Jim's vocals in Texas Radio were obviously from many different sources as has been pointed out by others. The sound of his voice changes frequently throughout the piece. They apparently didn't have footage for the "What do you guys want to hear next?" section. The footage was obviously pieced together from various parts of the show including the "Hey, Mr. Light an" section in which Jim is squinting up into the lights. They used that same footage again in its proper place. Lots of slow motion shots which I wasn't thrilled with, but it didn't ruin the show for me. There were a few questionable editing choices in my opinion: as I mentioned, the slow motion shots. I wasn't thrilled with the angle changes with the first few "fuck(s)" and the slow motion "fuck" leading into normal speed during LMF. I prefer this vocal to the Felt Forum vocal they used for the 80s release. I loved seeing more footage of John and Ray playing. It was cool to have close-up footage of John banging away on his drums for the execution scene during The Unkown Soldier, and it was cool to see Jim fall down once as opposed to two or three times in the 80s release.

No HRC. Nerd Boy didn't make the cut, and you know he's pissed about that.

Post by **wha happened** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:26 am

rokritr wrote: Bruce says that for "Texas Radio," he used "some of his poetry from other live performances and put it in place and some outtakes from the 'L.A. Woman' album."

The problem with this is, the ONLY multi track live recording of The WASP was from the Hollywood Bowl. It looks like they don't have the multi track for the Danish tv performance, but either way, the vocals used on the HB patch do not match the Danish tv version. We have other live performances of this piece (Dallas, Houston, Philly, Frankfurt...) but they weren't recorded by the band, nor do the vocals from those versions match this HB patch. Also, Jim's voice doesn't sound like it did during the LAW session. It does match up closer to what it sounded like in 1968 and it would not surprise me if Bruce has a studio outtake from the WFTS session that he's sitting on. Jim recorded this during his poetry readings also, but from what we have, they vocals don't match either.

Post by **wha happened** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:28 am

Encuentro wrote: No HRC. Nerd Boy didn't make the cut, and you know he's pissed about that.

I seem to remember that guy was filmed in the audience from the Asbury show and not the Hollywood Bowl.

Post by **rokritr** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:38 am

wha happened wrote:
rokritr wrote: Bruce says that for "Texas Radio," he used "some of his poetry from other live performances and put it in place and some outtakes from the 'L.A. Woman' album."
The problem with this is, the ONLY multi track live recording of The WASP was from the Hollywood Bowl. It looks like they don't have the multi track for the Danish tv performance, but either way, the vocals used on the HB patch do not match the Danish tv version. We have other live performances of this piece (Dallas, Houston, Philly, Frankfurt...) but they weren't recorded by the band, nor do the vocals from those versions match this HB patch. Also, Jim's voice doesn't sound like it did during the LAW session. It does match up closer to what it sounded like in 1968 and it would not surprise me if Bruce has a studio outtake from the WFTS session that he's sitting on. Jim recorded this during his poetry readings also, but from what we have, they vocals don't match either.

didn't say I believed ANYTHING that these guys said.....just reporting what they said

Post by **glenn** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:05 am

With all the talk about stickers, is it crazy that I'm about to toss mine in the trash?

Post by **Roughie** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:14 am

A fool and his stickers are soon parted!

Post by **wha happened** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:59 pm

It's so incredibly misleading to have HILY listed as a "lost track" when Jim's vocals are from the album version.

Post by **The Royal Sperm** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:12 pm

wha happened wrote:It's so incredibly misleading to have HILY listed as a "lost track" when Jim's vocals are from the album version.

well, in fact this album is the new "Absolutely Live" !!

@glenn, if you don't want the sticker, sent it to me

Post by **lizardkingteo** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:29 pm

had a listen to TRATBB from the CD and it really does look like a frankenstein track. I mean you can hear the change in Jims voice of course but in the parts of this change you can hear the cropping too (music stops for a sec and then it starts again in the cropped parts) . I dont know if this could be prevented but to my ears it does look like a bad job .Again i am not an expert and i dont blame Bruce. I know the work that was done in order to put this track but to another fan who just puts the cd and listen to the song i assume that he is going to say WTF ?

Post by **glenn** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:47 pm

The Royal Sperm wrote: @glenn, if you don't want the sticker, sent it to me :mrgreen:

Are you serious? I'd have no objection to springing for the postage for a letter to Peru. But only for a serious Doors sticker connoisseur.

Post by **Silver Forest** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:50 pm

glenn wrote:
The Royal Sperm wrote: @glenn, if you don't want the sticker, sent it to me
Are you serious? I'd have no objection to springing for the postage for a letter to Peru. But only for a serious Doors sticker connoisseur.

Hey Glenn is it cheaper to send the sticker to Peru or to Portugal?

Sorry F., I'm being very very rude. But you know this sticker addiction brings to surface the worst of me...

Post by **glenn** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:21 pm

Silver Forest wrote:
Hey Glenn is it cheaper to send the sticker to Peru or to Portugal?

Sorry F., I'm being very very rude. But you know this sticker addiction brings to surface the worst of me...

:lol:

Well, truth be known, I got the DVD too. So I have 2 stickers.

Post by **The Royal Sperm** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:39 pm

glenn wrote:
Silver Forest wrote:
Hey Glenn is it cheaper to send the sticker to Peru or to Portugal?

Sorry F., I'm being very very rude. But you know this sticker addiction brings to surface the worst of me...

Well, truth be known, I got the DVD too. So I have 2 stickers.

you're the man glenn! thanks,

SF if you want both we can start an auction