LOVE Holy Grail's

[jamestkirk]

Answering a fan question in 2006, Botnick said they didn't have any "Shaman's Blues" outtakes (at least not multis):

"8-Track outtakes of 'Who Do You Love,' 'Smokey The Bear,' 'Build Me A Woman' and 'Shaman's Blues' do not exist. Unfortunately the tapes were destroyed or are in someone's private library. Please let me know if anyone has Doors 8-Track tapes in their possession. We would like to copy them to digital and then they can have them back, no bad stuff towards these people and no money involved. Also, does anyone have any knowledge of where the 8-Track masters for Love's 'Forever Changes' are?"

So Len..did they get those 8-track tapes of Forever Changes? When they reissued FC in the LIMITED EDITION BOX (with a second version of complete alternate takes of FC)...was the final mix used for the FC box from the original tapes (the ones they were looking for?)...or just more digital wanderings to try to get a better FC for that box set?

[Chris M]

The Forever Changes session reels are long gone save for the reel with Red Telephone takes and the Wolly Bully jam.

The Love holy grail is the completely different version of the first album. Different recording sessions, producer, engineer, Hal Blaine on drums. Don't think the tapes have turned up,

[jamestkirk]

The Forever Changes session reels are long gone save for the reel with Red Telephone takes and the Wolly Bully jam.

The Love holy grail is the completely different version of the first album. Different recording sessions, producer, engineer, Hal Blaine on drums. Don't think the tapes have turned up,

So, there is no clue as to where the tapes for the first album would be? That would be a the Holy Grail of LOVE for sure..such a brilliant LP.

They originally were supposed to record/document all the FC sessions start to finish...chatter, banter, profanities and all, kind of like what was done later for Let It Be. It was so painfully staged by Arthur to be funny, they must have turned it off early on. TOO BAD> It would have been an important historical document all these years later.

Are you a big Love fan, CM?

[Chris M]

The Forever Changes session reels are long gone save for the reel with Red Telephone takes and the Wolly Bully jam.

The Love holy grail is the completely different version of the first album. Different recording sessions, producer, engineer, Hal Blaine on drums. Don't think the tapes have turned up,

So, there is no clue as to where the tapes for the first album would be? That would be a the Holy Grail of LOVE for sure..such a brilliant LP.

Are you a big Love fan, CM?

Oh yeah, big Love fan for sure. I don't think anyone knows where the 'lost' original version of the first LP is. Here's Johnny Echols on those sessions..

There is in fact a "lost" Love album!

About six months before we signed with Elektra we recorded most of the songs
that were on the first album plus John Lee Hooker which later became "Revelation"!

These sessions were recorded at Gold Star studios, and were produced by writer
Jerry Hopkins.

The Quality of these recordings were amazing, the sound and production values were world
class, far better than that which was achieved with Bruce Botnick at Sunset Sound.

Gold Star was a fantastic studio, with great engineers who actually listened to the
musicians, and Knew how to get the best sound and performances from them!

The other reason things went so well was the drummer, we had the great Hal Blaine
keeping time, just having someone like him in the room improved the level of everyone's
playing.

Jerry took the tapes to several Record Companies, most were interested but would not
budge when it came to the biggest obstacle, publishing rights to our songs. (Elektra was
the only company that would allow us to maintain total control of our songs.)

This was almost unheard of at the time, even groups like the Beatles and the Stones
didn't own the "Publishing" rights to the songs they wrote.

After running headlong into this seeming road block time and time again... Jerry decided
to throw in the towel, and as the years became decade's...forgot about, misplaced, or
just plain lost track of those tapes!

Several Record companies including Elektra, Rhino, MCA, and a few others have offered
substantial sums of money for the "Lost" or missing tapes, but as of now, where they are
remains another one of the intriguing "mysteries" of the group called Love.

PS:I forgot to mention...Don Conka also played on several songs, when he could
make it to the session!

[Silver Forest]

Amazing!
I'm not a huge Love fan but I can imagine how wonderful this recordings might be.
Plus, I can imagine how I would felt if there's some alternate Doors album out there, somewhere.
Also, everybody likes a good mistery. Unbelivable how such important stuff like this might be missing.
Thanks for this Chris M!

[jamestkirk]

...back to those lost LOVE tapes...just having the infamous and legendary Don Conka on some tracks is GOLD! We don't have a record of him anywhere...signed DC.

[BallroomDays67]

This is from the Wiki page for the debut album...

'According to the box set Love Story, the tracks "A Message To Pretty" and "My Flash On You" may feature John Fleckenstein on bass and Don Conka on drums in place of Forssi and Pfisterer.'

Is that definitely not the case?

[BallroomDays67]

The Forever Changes session reels are long gone save for the reel with Red Telephone takes and the Wolly Bully jam.

The Love holy grail is the completely different version of the first album. Different recording sessions, producer, engineer, Hal Blaine on drums. Don't think the tapes have turned up,

I just started reading "Forever Changes: Arthur Lee and the Book of Love" (BTW, very cool that you're mentioned in the preface), and I'm at the point where they're recording the debut album. Hopkins was briefly mentioned as having supervised a demo session at Original Sound, and Arthur's pre-Love Gold Star studios session was also mentioned. However, there hasn't been any reference at all to earlier recording sessions for the debut album. I'm really surprised.

[jamestkirk]

The Forever Changes session reels are long gone save for the reel with Red Telephone takes and the Wolly Bully jam.

The Love holy grail is the completely different version of the first album. Different recording sessions, producer, engineer, Hal Blaine on drums. Don't think the tapes have turned up,

I just started reading "Forever Changes: Arthur Lee and the Book of Love" (BTW, very cool that you're mentioned in the preface), and I'm at the point where they're recording the debut album. Hopkins was briefly mentioned as having supervised a demo session at Original Sound, and Arthur's pre-Love Gold Star studios session was also mentioned. However, there hasn't been any reference at all to earlier recording sessions for the debut album. I'm really surprised.

So Chris...how are/were you involved with Love? I assume that is you , Chris Moise in the preface?

bally--I suppose, Bally, that if John wasn't able to find good info about a recording
session such as the first album.....he skipped the rumors. John has included
so much heretofore never printed tidbits that an important puzzle piece like that
must have been something he had little, to no, input about.

[BallroomDays67]

It's great that you received a mention too.

Even if the author believes it to be a rumor, it's still strange that there's no mention of it at all. Johnny Echols clearly recalls the sessions, so the info was available. In reading the book, I get the impression that the author may not have been aware of the sessions.

[The Freedom Man]

I've just send an email to Johnny about this.Maybe he knows more and he just replied:

Hey Ed, We did discuss those songs, and there is a brief mention of some of thembut mostly they didn't make the cut! This is a huge book, that covers many topics,but for the sake of continuity, and to keep the book interesting to a wider audience he couldn't cover everything. Johnny E

So that explain's it.Hope the recordings will pop up someday...

[jamestkirk]

Isn't it nice to be able to go to the source!!! Thanks, Johnny and Ed!!

[The Freedom Man]

Yes, it makes it easy!

[BallroomDays67]

Thanks, Ed! I appreciate Johnny's response, but can't find a reference to any of those songs. To me, it seems like an oversight. In fact, it's mentioned that the sessions for the debut album went very quickly, and the reason given is that they had a lot experience perfoming those songs live. Nothing is said about their having previously recorded them.

[Chris M]

So Chris...how are/were you involved with Love? I assume that is you , Chris Moise in the preface?

That's me. I had no idea I was credited as my copy is still en route. I wasn't involved with Love, just put the author in touch with someone that worked with Arthur in the 90's and sent some small bits of info about the Rosa Lee Brooks session and 3/70 session with Hendrix at Island Studios in London.

[The Freedom Man]

Maybe that's the brief mention where Johnny talks about.