Pegasus Carousel

Michael Stuart-Ware (drummer on LoVE's classic albums Da Capo and Forever Changes) and Johnny Echols (lead guitarist and co-founder of LoVE) have joined us here on the Forum to answer your questions about their time with LoVE.At this moment they are not active as members and are not answering questions but I'm proud to have them both aboard at The Freedom Man Forum!

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jamestkirk
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Pegasus Carousel

Post by jamestkirk »

For me, the two essential books on Love are yours and Einarson's.

Is the reissue out yet, Michael, and are there any new photos that we haven't seen before in the revised book?

I think one of my favorite passages is when Jim Morrison was skinny dipping in Arthur's swimming pool...with Bryan's permission....well, not the skinny dipping part!

Arthur seemed to tolerate Jim at best...it seemed Jim just wanted to be like Arthur Lee...true?

:lol:

Bryan seemed to be fearless and quite a prankster. Any favorite stories that you have about Bryan you can relate would be cool.

I understand a new album of Bryan's material from the 80's is available now. Have you heard it?
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music".

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Post by MichaelStuart-Ware »

The idea for a reissue of PC was formulated by the late-president of Helter Skelter, Sean Body, a couple of years ago and shortly before his death. His plan was for more pictures and a updated closing epilogue, so that's the way it will be (along with a few other changes in the main text).

Arthur was widely recognized by other musicians, by the hip and by the music business world, as the coolest person in Hollywood. He was Superman in the flesh... a superior being who came to Earth with powers far beyond those of mortal man. Not just musically,... everything. Did Jim want to be like him? I would imagine.

In the days preceding and post-Da Capo, being in the same room with Arthur and Bryan on any given day, was like being in the presence of a great comedy team. Each was a creative intellectual and their daily conversation (funny or otherwise) reflected that. Bryan would say, "Arthur will flip when he sees this," and Arthur would enter the room, do a double take and perform a full-body flip. Or during rehearsals, sometimes Arthur would clear his throat, open the sliding glass door, hang a loogy out into the night, and then say, "Oh, sorry Forest." Forest Hamilton was our manager for a while. Stuff like that.

Bryan's "Intra Muros" CD is incredibly beautiful. It can be ordered through his Mom, Lizzy at lizzymckee@aol.com. She's working on putting together another recent collection of his work as well.
Last edited by MichaelStuart-Ware on Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by BallroomDays67 »

Did Bryan tell you about the time that Jim Morrison punched him in the mouth? The story is related by Arthur in the Einarson book. Arthur expressed admiration for Jim for having done that, but I admire Bryan for confronting Jim about his drinking. Bryan was apparently one of the few to do so, and he got punched in the mouth for it.
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Post by MichaelStuart-Ware »

The first I ever heard about the mouth punching was when Arthur told the story in the film. Then he told it again in the book, so... must be one of his favorites.

He got permanently mad at Bryan for luring Stephanie away, is the deal.
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Post by BallroomDays67 »

You can edit your posts. The button is in the upper right corner.
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Post by MichaelStuart-Ware »

Thank you.
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Post by jamestkirk »

I always found the orange juice issue fun....Arthur getting Love members to get him orange juice. So Arthur was banned from the Laurel Canyon Store...because?

Did it piss you off, Michael, or was it just another day in the life of Love, getting stuff for Arthur?
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Post by MichaelStuart-Ware »

Yeah, that was my first week in the group. All I know is what Kenny told me that day... Arthur had made a deal with a guy named Barry to leave some weed in his mailbox and take the money. When Arthur got home and checked the mailbox, no weed and the money he had left in there was gone. Later he's driving past the Canyon Country store and there's Barry sitting on the rail out front laughing it up and talking with some girls, so Arthur pulled over and stopped and beat him up.

He couldn't go there any more after that. Bill the owner like eighty-sixed him.

No I wasn't pissed at all. I thought it was kindly funny.

I remember the concept of Arthur being limited in that one little area was somehow fascinating. Kenny could go into the store, I could go into the store, but Arthur?.... he couldn't go into the store. Not even for OJ.
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Post by BallroomDays67 »

There's a great story in the book involving Bill Graham, and one of the posters used to advertise Love shows at the Fillmore. Of course, those Fillmore posters are now classics.

Are there any Love concert posters that are particularly memorable to you? Were there any that really stood out and made you feel that you had to have one?
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Post by MichaelStuart-Ware »

My favorite all-time poster would have to be the black and white Wes Wilson from March of '66. It was a Family Dog production held at the Fillmore, featuring Love, The Sons of Adam and The Charlatans.

I was still in the Sons of Adam. Snoop was playing drums with Love.

Bill Graham had mistakenly listed Love as The Love, so Arthur walks up to Bill and says, "Hey man, it's not 'THE Love'... it's just, 'Love'. OK?" Bill says "OK, Arthur. Sorry."

My other favorite is the blue and black and gold Patrick Lofthouse, from April of '68, Fillmore/Winterland, when we played with The Staple singers and the awesomely powerful Roland Kirk. When Roland picked up a second sax mid-song, and started playing a flawless jazz duet with himself, it was a beautiful thing to behold. You could almost feel the audience's eyes widen, and the sound was indescribable.

I'm happy to say I have both posters.
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Post by BallroomDays67 »

That's definitely my favorite too. Congrats on owning one! If it's from the first printing, it's a very tough one to obtain nowadays.

I have the two posters that Wes Wilson designed shortly thereafter for Sons of Adam shows at the Avalon Ballroom ("Laugh Cure", and the cancelled "Sin Dance"). Those are a couple of my favorites as well.

The Lofthouse poster is another nice one. The 4/18 Roland Kirk set was recorded, and can be heard on the Wolfgang's Vault website. You'd expect that Love's set was recorded too, but so far there aren't any of Love's shows available on the website.
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Post by BallroomDays67 »

Can you tell us anything about the changes to the main text? Will there be additional stories that aren't in the first edition?
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Post by MichaelStuart-Ware »

A few more stories and a lot more pictures, is all I know for certain, and that's like PRETTY certain. Because I mean, why not? More pics were supposed in the original book but somehow they didn't find their way in. I think decisions about the content will go on for a little while, like another month, realistically.

Sorry about the delay getting it actually out there. I realize Amazon had recently listed an availability date of sometime in november (that's correct) but actually we're just, as they say, "running a little behind schedule."

But we'll git her done.
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Post by The Freedom Man »

The working cover can be viewed at my homepage:
www.thefreedomman.com
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Re: pegasus c

Post by silentseason »

MichaelStuart-Ware wrote:A few more stories and a lot more pictures, is all I know for certain, and that's like PRETTY certain. Because I mean, why not? More pics were supposed in the original book but somehow they didn't find their way in. I think decisions about the content will go on for a little while, like another month, realistically.

Sorry about the delay getting it actually out there. I realize Amazon had recently listed an availability date of sometime in november (that's correct) but actually we're just, as they say, "running a little behind schedule."

But we'll git her done.
I don't know if Michael or someone else might know, but Amazon looks like it is listing a May 1 release date. Can this be confirmed as accurate?
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Post by MichaelStuart-Ware »

To silentseason
I believe May 1 is an approximation. After Helter is finished putting the final touches on two other titles they'll notify me to send the new inserts, then we're good to go.
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Post by The Freedom Man »

Nice to see you back here, Michael!
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Post by MichaelStuart-Ware »

Thanks Ed, Nice to be back of course. While I was away it looks like some of the questions turned to things having to do with the production end of Forever Changes... information I was never privy to, but which (fortunately) is right up Johnny's alley.
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Post by silentseason »

MichaelStuart-Ware wrote:To silentseason
I believe May 1 is an approximation. After Helter is finished putting the final touches on two other titles they'll notify me to send the new inserts, then we're good to go.
Thank you Michael. I ordered it last year and am eagerly awaiting its availability. On the subject of books, I would like to hear your opinions regarding Einarson's and Andrew Hulktrans writings (assuming you have read these). For Einarson I was wondering if you felt he painted an accurate picture of the events that occured in the Love saga, or if he might have possibly embellished or misinformed some. He seemed to give a fair shake to everyone and didn't seem to have any sort of hidden agenda, but only the participants can really know. Hulktrans I am in the process of starting to read so I haven't had any insights yet. What did you think of his book?
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Michael & Pegasus reissue-May release date

Post by jamestkirk »

The May 1st amazon release date is "optimistic" at best, says Michael.

He told me that the Publishers are working on more pressing releases, but Pegasus will get there...

Oh and Michael-- I had a question about Kenny in The Love thread, if you would be so kind...

Any Kenny stories would be appreciated!
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Post by MichaelStuart-Ware »

To silentseason,
I have read both books, but each only one time through. Andrew Hultkrans' "33 1/3 Forever Changes," (published in 2003) is an excellent analysis of the times, as reflected in the words of the songs Arthur wrote for the album.
John Einarson's, "Forever Changes-Arthur Lee and the Book of Love," is a compelling and insightful look at Arthur, the man and the poet/artist/musician, as seen through the eyes of many of those who knew him well enough to have an opinion. At the end of the book, the reader has to come away with the impression that the story of Arthur was similar in many respects to the ancient parable of the six blind men who each feel a different part of an elephant and are asked to describe the whole.
From what I read and hear, the Arthur I knew, from the mid-to-late sixties, was totally and altogether different than the Arthur of subsequent decades.
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Post by MichaelStuart-Ware »

To james,
Sorry, I'm not familiar with anything having to do with the Love Thread.
But Kenny and I were great car enthusiasts, and we used to spend many evenings out in the garage of my pad on Kirkwood...him working on his restored black XKE Jag and me on my old '59 356 Porsche, while smoking joint after joint of the relatively low-grade weed of the times.
Which is exactly what we were doing one hot summer night when a beat yellow XKE, with a rusty and dented right front fender and the front bumper hanging catywhampus on the frame, pulled up and stopped a few feet away. "That's a nice Jag," the stranger said. "Do you fellows happen to know where Stanley Hills Drive is? I'm lost."
So Kenny told him it was off Lookout Mountain and how to get there. And as the stranger pulled away and headed back down to Laurel Canyon, Kenny says, "Poor Charlton Heston, he could lead the chosen people to the promised land, but he can't find Stanley Hills Drive."
That's the best Kenny story I have, off the top of my head anyway.
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Post by jamestkirk »

What a great story, Michael.

Kenny was such a great & important piece in the best drum/bass rhythm section around.


Was it you, or you and Kenny, that had to fire Tjay for Arthur? Or was that Snoop you had to fire? How was Snoop let go?
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Post by MichaelStuart-Ware »

Right you are James,

Kenny Forssi has never gotten anywhere near the credit he deserves for being one of the all-time great bassists of any era, jazz or rock, and the impact he had on the unique sound of the group was irrefutably profound.

Tjay's sax and flute chops were right up there with best, as well. His background was jazz all the way and I can't imagine what Da Capo would have been without him. It was my unpleasant duty to let Tjay in on the new plan for a five member group. He lived right around the corner from Kenny's pad off Lookout Mountain (with his semi-tame monkey), so when Arthur asked me to take care of business, I just walked over to Tjay's place from Kenny's, which is where I was that day, working on his Jag. The L.A. Times music writer, Digby Diehl panned us good for letting Tjay go. He thought we had gone and lost our marbles. Could be.

I think Arthur told Snoop.
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Post by silentseason »

MichaelStuart-Ware wrote:Right you are James,

Kenny Forssi has never gotten anywhere near the credit he deserves for being one of the all-time great bassists of any era, jazz or rock, and the impact he had on the unique sound of the group was irrefutably profound.

Tjay's sax and flute chops were right up there with best, as well. His background was jazz all the way and I can't imagine what Da Capo would have been without him. It was my unpleasant duty to let Tjay in on the new plan for a five member group. He lived right around the corner from Kenny's pad off Lookout Mountain (with his semi-tame monkey), so when Arthur asked me to take care of business, I just walked over to Tjay's place from Kenny's, which is where I was that day, working on his Jag. The L.A. Times music writer, Digby Diehl panned us good for letting Tjay go. He thought we had gone and lost our marbles. Could be.

I think Arthur told Snoop.
A couple of follow up questions for Michael, and they fall under the "what if" catagory.

If Tjay and Snoopy hadn't been let go, how do you think the sound of FC would have been with them included and the orchestration not used? Or perhaps kept both on board and blended their instruments into the orchestration? I could easily imagine the flute complementing the strings and horns, and Snoopy filling in for Randi on keyboards.

The other question also regards FC: did the band even consider going full out electric for the album with no orchestration?
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Post by MichaelStuart-Ware »

To Silent,
In retrospect, I'm, certain Tjay's flute and sax would have added brilliantly to the overall sound on Forever Changes and I think Snoop could have handled the keyboard parts; but unfortunately, I think, at that point, Arthur was trying to hold potential complications to a minimum, and perhaps he felt that keeping Tjay and Snoop would have only made things more complicated.
Also, it always seemed to me that the band's first three albums were concept albums... a trilogy of folk-rock, jazz-rock and symphonic rock. Therefore, Arthur might have figured early on that Tjay's jazz style had no place on the third album.
The other band members really had no say in the decision to make Forever Changes an acoustic album with strings and horns (rather than a straight electric album.) It was Arthur's baby from the get-go.
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Post by jamestkirk »

So any further updates, Michael. Some who haven't had the opportunity to get the first edition are watching Amazon updates patiently?!
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update on book release

Post by MichaelStuart-Ware »

Helter Skelter tells me as soon as the Phil Spector bio has been handled, then my book is next. I see the release date for my book posted on Amazon has been put off until July, so that's a pretty good guess.

Longtime followers of the release date will remember the original date was a full year ago this month, which would have put the release of the revised Pegasus in direct conflict with the release of John Einarson excellent and long-awaited bio of Arthur, so I think Helter probably decided to put the new Pegasus on the back burner for a while and let the dust settle a little bit.

Makes sense to me. Got to trust the folks that know.
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Post by The Freedom Man »

I don't see the point, Michael, we're gonna get the book anyway!
I look forward to read it. I still have the working cover on my homepage, when we know the exact date I'll add some extra info.
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Post by jamestkirk »

The Freedom Man wrote:I don't see the point, Michael, we're gonna get the book anyway!
I look forward to read it. I still have the working cover on my homepage, when we know the exact date I'll add some extra info.
It's as indispensable as Einarson's, Ed!

You don't have it!? Or you likely mean with the added, new afterword!
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music".

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