Da Capo

[silentseason]

I know Da Capo has been touched upon in other threads but I believe that it is deserving of a thread unto itself. Besides being my favorite Love album it is the one that introduced me to the bands music so it will always hold a special place to me.

I have two questions for Johnny and Michael. First, I would like to know what the general mood of the band was regarding the inclusion of Tjay Cantrelli and the move of Snoopy to harpsichord, i.e. the new jazzier sound? Because that was such a radical move sonically (perhaps bigger than the orchestration of FC) I was curious as to the overall reaction of the band to the new sound.

Second question regards Revelation/JLH. My first listening to the song so ago was one of astonishment; it was incredible for a band to devote an entire side to a free form song. Even after learning of some of the behind the scenes machinations in the editing of the song my opinion is still undiminished. It seems to me that trying to get the genuine feel of the song in a studio would be near impossible; keeping that in mind I feel that what was ultimately included on the album is a worthy piece, certainly deserving of the legacy of the band. I would like to know if you guys have had any sort of revision of your opinions regarding this song with the passing of time.

[Johnny Echols]

Tjay, John Fleck, and I, had played at a club called the Sea Witch, (before we hooked-up with Arthur) which was sort of an "Avant Garde" free form venue. We were all pretty much closet jazz musicians, from the beginning.

As far as the inclusion of "Snoopy." Arthur and I were trying to find a way of keeping him in the group, after bringing Michael on-board. We were aware that "Snoopy" was a classically trained pianist, so we decided to push the envelope a bit, and see where it led. After adding Tjay to the mix, we pushed it a little more. The group was intrigued by the prospect of "fusing" Jazz, Classical, and R&B with Rock&Roll. Revelation was to be [the] culmination of that concept. And was meant to be recorded "live" in studio.

We had intended to include some of the dancers from BIDO LITO'S, in order to recreate a club atmosphere, but the musicians union would not allow us to do that. The problems started with Paul Rothschild, who was busy with the Doors, so he couldn't make the session. Being that he had never heard "Revelation," before attempting to mix the hour long track, down to an eighteen minute cut. He had absolutely no clue as to what we were trying to accomplish. So he wound up splicing the song in the wrong places, leaving the best parts on the cutting room floor. The solo's that needed to build in a natural order, were chopped up, with no rhyme or reason.

If we had worked out a shorter version in advance, we could have forestalled many, if not all of the problems arising from such a long track. Putting all the drama aside, I still think it's a fine song, and a cutting edge piece of music. It's just too bad we were unable to get the "real deal" on tape.

[TJSAbass]

Were the Da Capo songs played live much before recording? Some of them definitely don't seem to fit the club feel of the first album. Even with the lineup changes, I don't feel the band missed a step at all; in fact, jumped forward about 5 steps. The evolution over the first three albums in such a relatively short time is pretty amazing.

[Johnny Echols]

Were the Da Capo songs played live much before recording? Some of them definitely don't seem to fit the club feel of the first album. Even with the lineup changes, I don't feel the band missed a step at all; in fact, jumped forward about 5 steps. The evolution over the first three albums in such a relatively short time is pretty amazing.

With the exception of Revelation, none of the songs were played live before we recorded them. Things were evolving so fast, that most of them were not completely written, or finalized until we were in the studio. Rothschild was not too happy with what [seemed] to be a group that was unprepared. The reality was, that's just how we worked, there were always last minute changes, depending on how things sounded, when played back over the monitors. Both he, and Jac were really bothered by the abrupt change in musical direction. They had expected to release an album more like the first one.

[jamestkirk]

Were the Da Capo songs played live much before recording? Some of them definitely don't seem to fit the club feel of the first album. Even with the lineup changes, I don't feel the band missed a step at all; in fact, jumped forward about 5 steps. The evolution over the first three albums in such a relatively short time is pretty amazing.

With the exception of Revelation, none of the songs were played live before we recorded them. Things were evolving so fast, that most of them were not completely written, or finalized until we were in the studio. Rothschild was not too happy with what [seemed] to be a group that was unprepared. The reality was, that's just how we worked, there were always last minute changes, depending on how things sounded, when played back over the monitors. Both he, and Jac were really bothered by the abrupt change in musical direction. They had expected to release an album more like the first one.

I have always enjoyed REVELATION despite the somewhat bad press about the album version anyway--I especially like listening to my mono version...

I am so glad to hear you will be performing "Revelation" LIVE in your upcoming shows...what is the schedule now? Any new venues? All California I assume. It starts soon, right?

[Johnny Echols]

I also enjoy the mono version of Revelation, it's a much better mix. We will be playing a gig Sunday March 13th at Alex's in Long beach. It's very much like the Whisky, only larger. We get a pretty diverse crowd age wise. Everyone sings along, with us, and we all have a blast. Love fans are really cool, they don't complain when I feel the need to feed my blues Jones, by breaking into a Luther Allison type jam, if the mood strikes me. There's a couple more gigs in LA at the end of April. I'll post them in a timely manner, when someone tells me where they are!

[BallroomDays67]

Bryan said that he wrote "Orange Skies" when he was a roadie with The Byrds. Had he presented it to the band prior to the start of work on "Da Capo"? If so, it seems fortunate that it was saved for that album, as the flute part works so well.

[Johnny Echols]

Bryan said that he wrote "Orange Skies" when he was a roadie with The Byrds. Had he presented it to the band prior to the start of work on "Da Capo"? If so, it seems fortunate that it was saved for that album, as the flute part works so well.

Bryan's version of "Orange Skies" was quite different than the one you hear on "Da Capo." His, was very much a show tune, sans flute....with no jazz flavor, and no Gary Mcfarland scatting at the end. I'm making no judgments, as to which version was better....only that they were most assuredly different!

[silentseason]

A couple of questions for Michael in regards to the recording of Da Capo.

1) Rereading the CD liner notes it appears that the actual recording time for the album was fairly quick and efficient. In that vein I was wondering if there were any particular sessions or events while in the studio recording it that might stand out in your memory.

2) Was there any particular song that was tougher than the rest to record and if so why?

3) Andrew Sandoval seemed to imply that the original photos intended for the back cover created some problems, ie supposedly Tjay's picture was too big (even now it seems that way). Do you remember any of the specifics of the creation of the back cover photo?

[MichaelStuart-Ware]

1) Several thoughts stand out. One thing is, it seemed at the time, as though Paul Rothchild was a "hands off" kind of a producer... almost a producer in name only. I don't remember him coming out from the booth to make a suggestion or making any comments via the mic from the booth to any members of the group, at all, not one time.
But, as on Forever Changes, Arthur had very little instrumental responsibility, so, during the laying down of the instrumental tracks, he spent most of the time in the booth, behind the glass with Paul and Dave Hassinger (and on "Revelation," Bruce Botnick), therefore it could be that Paul was making some important suggestions back there where we couldn't hear.
Every cut went off fairly well... more or less like clockwork, to my recollection, without astronomical numbers of takes on any one song.

2) I only think that "Revelation" was the most difficult because it was so long and convoluted and it was the one that we were trying so hard (unsuccessfully, in my opinion) to make sound like it did in the clubs. We just weren't able to capture that gutteral and powerful groove that was so natural in the clubs; and the mix came out too tinney and crisp. Not enough bass and drums.

3) I believe those back cover shots were taken in the office upstairs at The Whisky by Guy Webster. He was standing up on a 6 foot ladder shooting down and placing us in different poses. Later, when we saw the final product, Snoopy said he thought his picture made him look like a penguin... and Bryan said he thought he looked like a little kid playing in a sandbox. Bryan says, "I look like a real badass there, don't I?"

[silentseason]

Interesting (but not surprising) revelation (no pun intended) about the photos. Looking at some of the threads in the forum Johnny does not mince words in that he believes Elektra dropped the ball in regards to promoting the band the way they should have. Those photos appear to be another link in that chain of thought. Staying just with Da Capo, were you satisfied with the final outcome on Elektra's part, ie how the songs sounded on record, album artwork, promotion, et al?

Another Da Capo question, and this falls heavily under the "what if" catagory. In fact there probably isn't an answer but what's the harm in asking. It is: if it had happened that for whatever reason it was decided at the last second that "Revelation" was going to be scrapped from the album and it was up to the band to come up with enough songs to fill an entire album side and it had to be done quickly, what do you think would have happened as far as song selection? Again, this is strictly a "what if" scenario.

[MichaelStuart-Ware]

I suppose the back cover photos could have been better, but to break it down into the three categories you listed, artwork, sound, and promotion, it's my opinion the photos probably had the least impact on the level of success the album achieved. Therefore...
1) Photos? I don't look like a penguin or like I'm playing in a sandbox and I'm posed in a daddy-cool type pose, so I think Guy did a hell of a job on the back cover photos. Let's move on to,
2) The quality of the sound was limited for several reasons. Not that great... compared to The Beatles? (Capitol Records)... The Byrds? (Columbia.)... well, their sound was a little more polished than Love's sound and perhaps a little easier to record properly, but side one of Da Capo was recorded at RCA's studio "B"... the exact same studio the Byrds used, and same studio and engineer (Dave Hassinger) The Rolling Stones used, so... take from that what you will. It's not like Elektra said, "You guys have to use Sunset Sound and Bruce Botnick because we can't afford an expensive studio like RCA. Which leads to,
3) The promotion (or lack thereof) of Da Capo...It's my understanding that the big selling point that Jac Holzman used to lure Arthur away the big labels like Columbia and Capitol in the first place, is that he (Arthur) would have more control with Elektra, so Arthur should have known there would be a little bit of a trade off there, but he went with the "control factor" anyway. Did he really think a fledgling label like Elektra would have the same promotional capabilities as the big labels?

I'll come back with the response to the second part of your question momentarily

[MichaelStuart-Ware]

On the other hand it's also very likely that nobody in the band (including Arthur) realized the full extent to which Elektra's lack of size and experience would eventually limit the success of the first three albums.

If (for whatever reason) "Revelation" had been scrapped, Arthur, Bryan and Johnny had an almost unlimited arsenal of material...more than enough to comprise another side "B."

[BallroomDays67]

What do you think about Elektra's decision to withdraw "Stephanie Knows Who" as a single, and replace it with "She Comes In Colors"?

Do you recall rehearsing any songs that didn't make the cut, or was the track listing pretty much decided upon by the time rehearsals started? Johnny mentioned above that "Orange Skies" had originally sounded like a show tune. Was the arrangement already worked out by the time you started rehearsing that song? If not, how did that play out? Do you recall Bryan having an issue with only one of his songs being selected for "Da Capo", or had that already been worked out by the time rehearsals started?

[MichaelStuart-Ware]

Replacing "Stephanie..." with "She Comes In Colors" was probably something Elektra decided to do based on the fact that "Stephanie..." was written in three-quarters time. So, replacing it makes sense to me. How many songs in three-quarters time make the top forty? (O.K., "What's New Pussycat.")

I don't remember Bryan having a problem with "Orange Skies" being the only song he got onto Da Capo. One out of seven's not a bad ratio, all thing's considered. The arrangements to all the songs were completely set by the time I joined up in late-August/early-September of '66.

[silentseason]

Michael,

A recent thread that has rare photos showed the band playing at the Whiskey, from the Da Capo era (Tjay and Snoopy were part of the band). A simple question: how did you all exist and perform on what appears to be too small a stage for seven members?

[MichaelStuart-Ware]

Yes, it does look rather cozy up there in that pic, but that was the nature of The Whisky. It was (and is) a relatively small venue, when compared to (for instance) The Hullabaloo or the Santa Monica Civic.

The Whisky was first introduced to the public via "Johnny Rivers, Live At The Whisky A Go Go," with his big hit "Memphis" in around 1964 (I believe), and on that record you can hear the smallness of the club and the proximity of the stage to the audience, what with the clapping along with the beat and the "woo woo"s from the audience.

It was almost like the stage at The Whisky was built to accommodate Johnny Rivers and one or two backup musicians, or similar acts, and the multi-member rock groups that came along later, just kind of wedged themselves in there. However, I don't remember there being any real problem, but then again, I was up there safe behind my drum kit, not walking around.

Personally, I didn't really care for the cavernous venues with their big stages...give me the small clubs with their small stages any day. The sound of the music and the ambiance is wayyyy better.

[silentseason]

Michael,

A Da Capo 'live' question. Since Snoopy played harpsichord, piano and organ on the album, on actual live performances what type(s) of keyboards did he play, and from the photos it looks like Tjay had an electric connection for the flute; did he play an electrified flute/sax?

[MichaelStuart-Ware]

Since actual harpsichords were hard to come by on the road, I'm pretty sure Snoop just had the promoters supply an electric piano/organ (which usually has a harpsichord-like setting). Not absolutely certain, though.

I do remember Tjay used an electrical hook-up for his flute, but I don't remember if he used the same for the sax, or if the hookup projected through the house PA or through an amp located onstage . I just don't have any recollection whatsoever, sorry.