Dallas - December 1970

We're lucky to have former Doors road manager Vince Treanor here to answer fan questions and share some of his memories. Ask Vince about anything related to the equipment The Doors used, stage set-ups, specific concerts, the band after Jim's death, and working on the Oliver Stone movie.

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universalmind69
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Post by universalmind69 »

hardrockcafe wrote:
Buda wrote:Hey Vince, I guess you would have remembered this below quoted aspect of the night but some already proven shittytalker called Stephen Davis wrote in his Doors bio the following and I thought I ask it anyway:

"During the finale, "Light My Fire," Jim tried to cavort around the stage, but he collapsed into Robby and both men crashed to the floor and almost fell off the stage. There was no encore."

Again, I guess you'd have told it, but do you able to recall anything similar happened that night on either set?
So Jim falling into Robby happened during the 2nd Dallas set?
I'd very much like to hear Vince's take/memories of this as well but I thought I'd add that this incident is also "confirmed" in another review that I have that was published a few weeks after the shows.
The review isn't out to bring Morrison or The Doors down or make things up or anything... it's a pretty levelheaded review stating that Morrison "throughout both shows nursed one after another of a long line of beers", something that apparently resulted in Morrison knocking Krieger over in "an unexpected burst of Doors energy" during the 2nd set.
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Post by hardrockcafe »

Poor Jim. His alcoholism had really reached a "tipping point" by this time. (No pun intended). He kept getting juiced and couldn't stop.

Still, it sounds like the 2nd Dallas show was better than what happened the following night in New Orleans. Can you post the article? What publication is it from?
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Post by mystery_train67 »

Very cool. Thanks for posting. Good to hear that Riders had impact and was memorable even at it's earliest debut.
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Post by hardrockcafe »

Here's a photo of retired music and film critic Philip Wuntch.

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairp ... critic.php

Image

It would be cool if someone could track him down and see if he has any additional recollections or photos from the Dallas shows.
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Post by universalmind69 »

No problem.... the first review I posted is from the Dec. 14th issue of Dallas Morning News, don't really know about the others, can't even remember where I got them.
That other review I was quoting parts of is from a Dallas undeground paper, I have yet to make a scan of that one..
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Post by hardrockcafe »

Vince

Do you recall the "wild standing ovation" in Dallas that critic Wuntch reported in his review?

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Last edited by hardrockcafe on Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by hardrockcafe »

universalmind69 wrote:No problem.... the first review I posted is from the Dec. 14th issue of Dallas Morning News, don't really know about the others, can't even remember where I got them.
That other review I was quoting parts of is from a Dallas undeground paper, I have yet to make a scan of that one..
Thanks. My guess is that there might be additional Dallas reviews waiting to be rediscovered. The Dallas Times Herald and Fort Worth Star Telegram may have reviewed the show too. Their stuff is probably on microfilm at the Dallas Public Library. I'd love to hear either of the Doors Dallas shows in soundboard quality. What are the odds there is a soundboard recording out there?
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Post by hardrockcafe »

Vince,

Here are the (partial) setlists per the research folks at www.mildequator.com. http://mildequator.com/performancehisto ... 01211.html

Do you remember any additional songs being performed in Dallas?

Dallas Setlists

Early Show
House Announcer (Unknown)
Love Her Madly
-Love Her Madly Jam (Instrumental)
Backdoor Man
Ship of Fools
-Land Ho!
The Changeling
L.A. Woman
When The Music's Over
-All My World

Late Show

Riders On The Storm
(Incomplete)

Recordings / Film:
Amateur/Audience Recording (Early Show)

Reviews / Info:
-8:00pm & 10:30pm scheduled start times.
-Setlist for the late show is only speculation and may be inaccurate.
-Amateur/Audience recording of the early show includes the only known live performances of 'L.A. Woman' and 'Love Her Madly'.

(Research by mildequator.com)
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Post by dj_vera »

So according to that last review, the audience recording we have may be the entire early set since it stated LMF wasn't played.
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Post by hardrockcafe »

Buda wrote:
"The next night, December 12, 1970, the Doors were booked into the Warehouse, New Orleans' famed electric ballroom. Then in the middle of "Light My Fire," Jim Morrison died on stage. He stopped singing and stumbled to the drum riser and sat down. He missed his cue at the end of the guitar solo, unable to stand, so the band anxiously went through another instrumental cycle. When it was time for Jim to finish the song, John Densmore disgracefully rammed his boot in the middle of Jim's back and sharply pushed him upright. Standing again, shaking with anxiety and rage, Jim burst into a tormented fury. He grabbed the mike stand and began smashing itonto the stage floor, again and again, until the wooden planks began to splinter. The kids in front looked on in shock. then the mike stand broke in two. Jim only stopped when Vince Treanor walked out from behind the amps and laid a calming hand on his shoulder. Jim put his arms around Vince for support, and stood there, staring, breathing hard, while the Doors finished the song. Then Jim dropped the microphone and staggered the stage. The show was over. And so were the Doors. "
Interesting New Orleans passage Buda posted from the Stephen DAvis book. Vince, do you think it was Densmore's kicking Jim in the back that set Jim off in New Orleans and caused him to smash the stage with the mic stand? He was drunk, but did he feel disrespected by John kicking him and take his rage out on the stage floor?
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Post by Buda »

Here is Vince's current and his past (2006) recollection regarding the events that happened that night in New Orleans and afterward. I only corrected the few typos which were in there and put the recollections in chronological order (at times melting sentences) in order to have Vince's most detailed remembrance of the night. Also let me state that all are his words not mine. There are no needless cultivations or supplements from my part or if there is for the easier understanding, it is in brackets. Here he also answers the question regarding John kicking Jim in the back.

Vince, if there's anything you'd like to add or change, please correct me. Thanks.
The Doors' road manager, Vince Treanor wrote:"New Orleans - Play in a cotton warehouse. Terrible acoustics. Stage was good, strong. Of course we had our equipment so there was no question of being heard throughout the building. Against all instructions to the contrary, there was plenty of beer. Jim, felt that, and for some unknown reason, he was compelled, perhaps out of courtesy, to consume most of it. To be sure that there was none left over. When he came to the stage, he was intoxicated. I suppose crude words like "drunk" smashed, blotto or similar ilk could address the situation appropriately as well. What could not be anticipated was his behavior. In fact he did sing, he didn't vomit on the organ, drums, or Robby's clothes and guitar. He didn't fall off stage, nor did he fall down and to the dying fish imitation. During "Light My Fire" he did sit down. It was during the rift in which Ray and Robby had a play-off. And Jim forgot the words to "Light My Fire". I state here John did not kick Jim in the back or any other place. Jim was too far from him in the first place. The idiot who wrote that forgot that Jim and John were separated by a bass drum, snare drum stand and two cymbal stands, not to mention mike stands and cables. That some fool, like Stone and Sugerman before him, simple wanted to fantasize and glorify mythology - if not create some of his own. I was there, Jim was sitting near me. I believe it was Bill who said - this is NOT a quote, something like, "He's so drunk he forgot the words." (During the absence of words,) Jim made some noises, something between a muffled "Yeah," which was his favorite fill-in when all else failed, and a possible, "Oh Shit, I forgot the words". He got up off the drum platform and moved to the mike at the center stage. He took the mike stand, picked it up by the shaft and pounded the stage floor with the base until he broke through the two layers of plywood that made up the stage floor. He smashed a hole in it. As the base went through the platform, it broke off leaving the shaft in Jim's hands. Jim took the shaft of the broken mike stand and with a wide sweeping motion threw it, like a javalin, hurled it out into the audience. Why he did not seriously injured someone is never to be known. But having performed this Olympic feat, he walked off stage, this ending his career as lead singer for The Doors. Let us draw the curtain of charity of what followed.

He then shambled off to stage right, and went up the stairs to the dressing room. The three remaining guys left the stage and followed him. They did not start moving until he was at the head of the stairs. I can assure that I did not escort Jim off stage. I would not leave the equipment alone on stage when a show ended. Again the fool who wrote that, and expected anyone to believe it, did not know me or my reputation for guarding the equipment. We left in the big Step Van. They left in a bad mood. John was the only one to speak, "That's it I will never play with that asshole again" or something close to it. John was, to say the least, angry. So was Bill, Ray, myself and perhaps Robby. Actually, we had to pack up so I was not privy to what happened in the dressing room. I will suggest that we did not hear any screaming, yelling or those sickning sounds that are the result of fists hitting flesh and bone.
After New Orleans the group retreated to Los Angeles. Angry, discouraged, and defeated in the battle to have a "normal" performance wherein Jim would sing, no one would be waiting for a police raid and the performance did not deteriorate into utter chaos. They returned to Los Angeles to complete the recording of LA Woman and that was it. Jim left for Paris (1971 spring) and the Doors continued to prepare for Other Voices. And that is the sad end to an illustrious career, a group, and their dedicated staff.

I was told to put the equipment in good condition, make sure all was in working order. I was "suspended" for an indefinite period and was, under no circumstances, to take another job. I was asked to be availale as necessary to serve the rehearsals, check the equipment, drums, and guitars. I was also requested to investigate a completely portable Hammond B-# model organ, custom fitted in a case for the road. As summer (1971) progressed it was more frequent call times for rehearsals in an old theater - stage and all - with Bruce riding the pots. Every rehearsal was with clothes. With a very well rehearsed program, with Bruce co-ordinated with the Music, lyrics and players, things were ready, indeed.

We went on tour (November, 1971). The guys performed top-notch as always. The problem - They played the wrong music. At a concert the group play their music. Then they play their smash hits and the audience goes crazy. They play a so-so piece and the applause is there but one could say "muted". It was exactly so on this tour. If one had an applause meter you could have measured the difference by a fair margin. To be honest, it was heart breaking. I felt very unhappy. I knew, by the time we ended the tour, that things were not going well. Of course the ugys were patting back, Bruce was up-beat everyone was telling everyone else how well it went. Technically, this was so true, without question. But regards the audience, they knew what they wanted to hear. It was not entirely what they heard."
"Because when the crowds finally begin to accept you
you become the suspect of your artistry" Buk
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Post by vince »

I have read the review of the performance at Dallas and New Orleans.. Let's clear the air.

He did not stagger into robby nor did he and Robby "Fall" The show was mundane, and ill attendanded, as I have mentioned before. I repeat that this was likely the result of the finality of the results of bad behavior.

Regards New Orleans. I would accept his description of the performance. I would suggest that his opinions of Jims condition were pretty accurate. As I mentioned, Jim had been drinking heavily in the pressing room prior to the performance.

OK - Jim sits on the drum stand. John could only kick jim by thrusting his foot between Bass and Floor tom's - Could not be done without disturbing the set-up. In any case, aside fromt he physical difficulties, John would not do that. It would also mean breaking rhythm of the bass drum - John would not condier that either.

Regards me going out on stage - Absolutely unthinkable. First, it was not my place to do this. Second I would never, outside of a physical or medical emergency, interfered with a performance. Third - How woudl I dare to attempt to interfere with my employer regardless of what he was doing.

In fact, all during the stage smashing episode, I was still standing beside the drum platform at stage left. Bill SIddons was near me. Photos taken from the audience that were of wide enough angle would confirm this.

Another arror. the stange was NOT made of planks but rather two layers of 3/4" plywood. The smashed his way theough 1-1/2" of plywood. It was the shaft of the stand striking the edge of the hole that broke the base off. Up to that point it was the mass and velocity of the base that did the damage.

As for what went on in the limo. Naturally, I was not there. I cannot verify it. Ray said nothing on stage. John was the one who suggested he would never play with that asshole again. At that point. I think we all agreed with that sentiment.

How could this SD fellow could know what was said in the limo. It was basically the same set-up that Walter Cronkite used when he recorded the late JC and his encounter with the devil in the desert.

I do not know what people have to elaborate on a story. Is it to make it more lurid, more exciting. Does any person know that there are toher witnesses who can deny or corroberate their fantastic story. I don't see what the benefit is except sensationalism.

It is, just considering the events of the performance, quite likely little was said in the limo. That Ray might have said it was over is a possibility. Ray was - appeared -pretty angry as he left the stage. But Ray was not the kind to say too much.

In the end, does it matter who said what? It was all well understood what would happen long before Bill make the commitments for the 2 performances.

You know, I wonder about John. I think that he wanted everything to go well. I believe, although he was the angry voice at Isle of Wright, he did not want the group to fail for any reason.

I wonder that if I felt depression in my life, it was in the hours after that performance. Well, no, Fiasco would be better.

We did not have time to dwell on it. Hardly had we travelled far on Route 10 but the truck threw a rod. We spent the night in the most disgustion jail - for vagrancy - you could ever imagine. The next 3 days were spend it a motel while the engine was repaired and we again headed to Los Angeles.

Imagine having $400.00 in cash in your pocket and being arrested for vagrancy while driving a GMC step van and $50,000 in equipment. Sulpher, Louisiana will always be a place to remember - unpleasantly.

OK - Hopefully that myth is busted!!!

Thanks guys - wonderful photos of the hall. It is a shame that they made such a horrible mess of it. Yes, the interior was really beautiful.

Next!!!


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Post by Buda »

Thanks Vince for clearing the air for one last time. Just for a short detour regarding New Orleans, here is Ray's recollections taken from his autobiography where this Stephen Davis fella must have taken his instances. Clearly it is Ray who made the other big part up about the events and also interesting to see his tone as he recollects the night and what happened afterward, how he lowers the impact of the happenings and the band's approach to all that...

[quote="Ray Manzarek, in his autobiography, "Light My Fire - My Life With The Doors," p.341-343"]"That fateful last concert in New Orleans, where the bayou and the voodoo conjoined to snuff out Jim's spirit. It just left him. Halfway through the set his energy, his vital force, his chi, just left him. It became a vapor. An exhalation of the stomach that rose out through the top of his head. Off into the ether. Perhaps to join Pan and the satyr. Perhaps to dissipate into the universe. I remember that concert like it was yesterday. A packed warehouse on the docks. Low, dark, and ancient. Slave vibes, juju vibes, Marie Laveau and Dr. John walking on gilded splinters. It was musty with 150 years of cargos coming and going on the Mississippi. I didn't like it. It was Van Gogh's Night Cafe. It was not a place to make music. It was a place to plan a crime, buy drugs, or commit a murder. Halfway through a lackluster set, Jim suddenly left the stage. I could feel it. I usually played with my head down and my eye closed. Concentrating on my left-hand bass, right-hand organ. John's beat, Robby's chords and fills, and Jim's words. I knew where everybody was at every moment. I could feel them. Their presence. Their essence. And at a most inappropriate place, in the middle of a song, in the middle of a short solo, Jim left the stage. Now in the middle of "Light My Fire" Jim would frequently leave the stage to get a beer as Robby and I soloed for upwards of ten minutes or more. But this was not "Light My Fire" and Jim was gone. I could feel him leave. And I looked up and I was shocked. He was standing at the microphone! He hadn't left the stage. Only his essence had. And it was streaming up from his stomach and out through the crown chakra. Out into the voodoo that night. Spreading itself over the assembled mulitude. Disappearing into the sweat and heat and dust and rafters of the ancient edifice in the New World city of New Orleans on the bayou. And then Jim began to sing again. But without any commitment to the words. Without passion. Without energy. He was spent. Exhausted. He badly needed rest. He needed to rediscover himself. And he needed time away from his drinking buddies. He needed time away from those ne'er-do-wells on the Morrison dole. He needed to be a poet again. A quiet, contemplative poet.

John and Robby saw it, too. And they saw Jim lose it at the end of the set. They saw him pick up the mic stand with his heavy weighted base and begin to smash the stand into the old plank flooring of the stage. Over and over and over. Smashing the stage to pieces. Smashing his life to pieces in blind rage. A fury had overtaken him and he couldn't stop. He splintered the wood and shattered his soul. Vince finally came out from behind the amps and put his hand on Jim's shoulder. He immediately stopped. His rage dissipated with Vince's comforting touch. He put his arm around Vince's shoulder and just stood there, at the mic, looking out at the audience as we finished the final chorus of "The End." We would never play that song with Jim Morrison ever again. When we got back to Los Angeles, Robby, John and I had a short meeting and unanimously agreed to stop performing in public; Jim wasn't up to it anymore. It was too much of a strain on him. We couldn't risk his health, both physical and psychological. We told him and he was happy with the decision.

"Listen, man. Why don't we not tour for a while and just concentrate on writing," I said. "What do you say?"

"Sounds good to me," he responded. "I don't feel like touring anyway."

"We thought we could just stay in L.A. and rehearse," Robby said. "You know, work on songs together."

"Cool," Jim said. "We gotta get ready for our last album, you know."

A silence hit the room. The dark green thing stuck it's tentacles into my stomach and stirred my gastric juices in a nasty, evil way. Robby went pale. The air was sucked out of John's lungs. Last album? Robby finally spoke.

"What do you mean?....Aren't we.....aren't we gonna work together anymore?"

Jim looked perplexed. "What are you talking about? Of course we're going to work together." He took a laconic pull off his Tecate. "I meant our contract with Elektra. It's over after this record."

The air rushed back into John's diaphragm. "We're free!" he jubilantly exclaimed. The green thing released its stranglehold on my duodenum.

"Seven records," I said smiling. "And this one is the last. We can do anything we want after this." I was so relieved.

"I thought you meant you were gonna....work with....someone else," Robby said.

Jim laughed, "Like who?"

"I don't know, like anyone."

"Why would I want to work with someone else?" Jim asked. "Who can play better than you guys?"

"Well, we know that," John said laughing. "We just wondered if you did."

"Shit, John, I'm not the 'the little moron.' I know what I've got here," said Jim.

"You'd better goddamn it," I said.

"I do wanna do a poetry album, though. But I'll get to that....when I get to that," said Jim. And he took another pull on his beer.

"Well, we got a lot of work to do right now," I said.

"Yeah, we got our last album to make," Robby joked.

"You got a title, Jim?" John asked.

Jim pondered, bobbing his head laconically. "Yeah....I think so." He spoke slowly, thoughtfully. "I think....maybe...L.A. Woman."

"Cool!," said John.

"I like it," I said.

"Kind of an ode to Los Angeles....and a woman, at the same time," Jim said.

"And Los Angeles as a woman," Robby added. "Wait till you hear it. We just started fooling around with it."

"Shit, let's try it now!" enthused John.

"Hey, anybody got some place to be?" I asked.

Everybody shook their heads no.

"Well, let's get busy," I said.

"Yeah, we got an album to make!" said Jim, smiling. "Let's not be standing around and jawing idly. Hell, times a-wastin'!"[/quote]
"Because when the crowds finally begin to accept you
you become the suspect of your artistry" Buk
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Post by vince »

Hello Again:

Let us look at the recollection of the New Orleans event as described by Ray.

First Let's look at Ray himself. He was the one who met Jim at UCLA. It was with Ray and DOrothey that Jim stayed and, according to Ray, during that share-time period, Jim furhter developed some writings. Remember also that Jim and Ray with his brothers, made some music. Ray's brothers felt it was not going to result on good things. They become dis-satisfied or disallusioned and that early group broke up.

Ray then rbought Robby and John, who were already fast friends, to gether to form "the Doors". Ray had a history with Jim. Ray knew of Jims proclivity for mild drugs and serious drinking. Ray had a common thread with Jim as a result of their mutual interest in UCLA, films and their somewhat conpatable ideals and ideas regarding fim, stories and presentation.

With this in mind, one must understand that Ray would be about the last one to want the break. Yet he would also be the most disappointed, having felt that he discovered Jim and also believed in his music. Ray would have felt some responsibility for the state of things leading to New Orleans because Jim had his backing, his promotion. Ray would have been torn between understanding that things were out of control and yet not wanting to see the group fail. It was, after all, the source of their income.

I will state clearly, I want to make it clear once and for all - I did not, I would not have gone to jim to pat his shoulder any more than I would have taken over the singing. I went there in Miami under Ray's command. I stayed as unobtrusive as possible because, while holding Jim's pants up, he was still performin or talking or whatever.

In New Orleans, the show did not go well. I think Ray's description of the building, the room, the history is a wonderful pieve of literature. One might say poetic or "Inspired". After all we can wax loquatious when writing because we have an "Edit" pey to go to.

That is perfectly OK. I find no fault or deception in Ray's rendition of the show. I will say that he pretty much said what we all felt when we went into the place. Did jim lose his spirit in that building. I don't think so. It that is true, let's say he lost what was left of the spirit that began to leak out the day after Amsterdam when he was faced with published reviews of a performance he had nothing to do with. One could draw a straight line on the energy scale from Amsterdam to New Orleans. All the performances were mediocer at best, lackluster, dispirited. Even the Cow Palace chow put on by Bill Graham, was not the best.

Regards the office conversation after New Orleans, Again it is Ray's choice to reveal, delete, romanticise or elaborate on what went on at that meeting. Did he reduce the acrimony that may have remained after a cooling-off period? Likely. Again, Ray's personal onvolvement with Jim was an inhibitor to the venting of his real disappointment.

Remember as well, even after Jim's death, Ray has been glamourizing his image, glossing over his failing and the financial and emotional impact on the group. Ray was hurt. I think the establishing of Jim on an Ivory Tower is sort of a defensive mechanism. BUT - I also must asknowledge that Ray did have an emotional, an intellectual connection to Jim.

I agree that subsequent versions of New Orleans were taken from Ray's original writing. The similarity is to co-incidental. Again, I make it clear, Without direct orders from my employers there is no possibility of my interferance with the activities of any of the guys. If Jim had collapsed, Had he injured himself in some way or another - trust that I would have gone over the top of the amps to get to him. That would be justifiable. That was Ray's fantasy of the situation. Aside from that - his description is about as good as any can be.

We all agree Jim was drunk (Ray did not mention this indelicate condition). The show was not good and neither was the building situation. We all agree that Jim sat down in the transition section of Light my fire and following that he smashed his way through the stage floor. Everything else is frosting on the cake.

I do hope this puts this wonderful episode to rest. It was not a happy one and it bring back memories I think everyone, especialy the participants, would like to forget - but can't.

But let not that prevent further inquiry. Otherwise I might get A - Bored and B - Senile.

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Post by vince »

Oh dear - I have to excuse the typos again. You know, I think faster than I can make my 3 right thumbs press the correct keys. When I write it is my thoughts flowing out without a lot of premeditation. I don't like to proof read because I then get lost in trying to be more eloquent, descriptive, or elaborate. It is like Take 24 on "Waiting for the sun".

I ask your indulgence. If it doesn't make sence, just fill in the bad spots. Likely it will come out right.

V.T. III
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Post by Buda »

A BIG Thanks Vince again for your efforts for bringing the fullest picture to our table! From my part, I think there's no questions left unanswered that I could ask from you so about this so I will just endeavor to other times/happenings later on so for sure you won't get bored.

..oh and forgot the typos. We need the flow! At all costs! :wink:
"Because when the crowds finally begin to accept you
you become the suspect of your artistry" Buk
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Post by universalmind69 »

Thanks, Vince! Good to see some of the stuff that we're likely to take as facts being put straight by someone who was actually there (once again).... on top of this you've got an honest and straightforward way of putting things that I just love.
No BS... no gift wrappings or sugarcoating - just "the straight dope", as they say :lol:

Is there a "V Treanor - Doors Road manager 1967-72" book in the making, or did I just get this all wrong? Hope I didn't...
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Post by hardrockcafe »

Thanks Vince! Getting back to your time in Dallas, 1970 - Did you hang out with the band or do anything with them in Dallas? Do you remember what hotel you and the band stayed at in Dallas? Were you able to get any rest after the Dallas show or did you drive straight to New Orleans overnight?
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Post by vince »

Outside of a few hours in London I did not "Hang out" with the Doors. I was hired as a road manager. That job was time consuming and often difficult. We had to be first into the venue to do the set-up and defend the territory agaist those who came later. There was also the problem of possible sound check. I usually did sound, having the superior equipment, for the other groups as well. I had to be available for their sound cheks as well.

After the performance we had to pack the equipment and load it into the truck and then - on our way. No time for socializing.

Naturally when we had a compliment of Band Boys the job went a lot easier and oft times faster. We still had the lingering fear of someone making a run on stage and grabbing something as happened in Singer Bowl. If we did have a crew it was incumbent on me to provide a nice dinner and chat time for those who worked with so much devotion and asked for nothing in return. Certainly they deserved more than, "Great job guys, see you next time." as I rushed off to "See and be seen" with the Doors. No, we, all in all, were the Road crew, the technicians and organizers of the show. The socializing could be done at any time.

As far as hotel, they stayed at the Ponchertrain Hotel. We, thanks to the efforts of Bill Siddons, were never considered worthy of such lofty accommodations. It is funny to think back now. When Bill was on the road with the group he stayed where ever they did, same hotel, same accommodations. When he became Manager, and worked with the travel agent for hotels and such, i was pretty far down the totem pole.

That was OK, I was not there to spend time in a hotel. What time I did spend was in blissful sleep. As long as I did not have to share space with any 6 legged creatures it was all the same to me. If the roof leaked, I just had a shower and moved the bed over.

Those were the days, my love those were the days....

Vince
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Post by Roughie »

mystery_train67 wrote:Vince what behaviour of Jims at the Isle Of Wight upset the other band members?
Hi Vince,

If you have addressed this already and I missed it, please just say so and i will read it all again, if not could you please answer Mystery trains question?

Thanks.
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Post by hardrockcafe »

Does anyone know if "Texas Radio and the Big Beat" was played during the 2nd set in Dallas, Texas?
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Post by vince »

Isle of Wright

here were 1 million, perhaps more, people by ticket sale count. The most popular groups of the day were on the program. We were proceeded by Emmerson, Lake and Palmer (With live cannon).
Every group put on their best, playing their most popular, signature music. All, except the Doors. Jim, as usual came out to the mic after the guys had begun playing the music. He stood at the mic like a statue. He let the mic make the sounds, He sang the notes with about as much enthusiasm as a kitchen sponge. I was going to suggest earthworm but they are far more animated.

I can assume that all they people on the Forum have been to performances, maybe even of the original group. You all know that the musicians in the group get quite excited, animated, vigorous. I have to say that Ray, John and Robby were really for more exciting to watch and hear than Jim. One could almost say that he sang in a monotone. It was dull, boring, lackluster, disappointing. I would have to suggest that he had more activity, more enthusiasm in recording sessions than he did no that stage.

When one asks what Jim did to make The performance a disappointment, you would really have to ask, "What did Jim Not do".I suppose if you want a simple answer (From me???) you would have to say - Nothing.

Never one short of words let me go further - It was more exciting listening to a recording than it was to attend that particular performance.

I want to make it clear. He sang every song, all the words. He did not miss a cue, go off pitch or do anything to alter, modify or emasculate any of the pieces. He was, compared to other performances, like a statue with a speaker in it's mouth.

The guys felt that the performance sould have been like Singer Bowl where he flopped on the floor, or as some of the early 1968 performances that were so active, dynamic physically exciting. He moved about the stage, he gestured, he used his voice like a whip. They just felt shamed in fromt of other groups. After all, they came there with a reputation for the unpredictable, the radical. They left people wondering what all the fuss was about. The Joni Mitchell, even Tiptoes in the tulips was more exciting. Emerson et al was the hit of the day. We followed them. It was like a ad break during a horror show.

Somewhat similar to New Orleans (Yet to come) Jim left first - but not so abruptly - and the group followed. John was furious, Ray and Robby were grim and that was the beginning of "The End". The Music was nearly over. A very sad day.

You know I was thinking of a closing. Sort of a Zing line. It occurs to me that if you wanted a more perfect musical performance you could not have had it. If you wanted a funeral dirge, this was it. I think that Someone, perhaps me, described Jim as standing like a wet towel draped over the mic stand. I think that describes just how exciting it was.

You could get a better stiffy by watching grass grow.

I do hope that aptly describes the event.

Vince
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Post by hardrockcafe »

vince wrote:
We did not have time to dwell on it. Hardly had we travelled far on Route 10 but the truck threw a rod. We spent the night in the most disgustion jail - for vagrancy - you could ever imagine. The next 3 days were spend it a motel while the engine was repaired and we again headed to Los Angeles.

Imagine having $400.00 in cash in your pocket and being arrested for vagrancy while driving a GMC step van and $50,000 in equipment. Sulpher, Louisiana will always be a place to remember - unpleasantly.


Vince
Vince - Yikes! This sounds like a nightmare scene from the movie Deliverance! A bunch of rednecks put you in jail because you had long hair?
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Post by hardrockcafe »

Does the photo of Jim shaking the tambourine suggest "The End" was played in Dallas? What songs was Jim known to play tambourine on?

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Post by mystery_train67 »

I don't think that's evidence to suggest The End was played. Densmore plays the tambourine during that song. There is no way Morrison could have done it, half the time he can't even shake a maracca in good time with the band, there's no way it's him on Tambourine. Besides that, we can see John doing it in videos.

Could have been a new song.... hmmmm just trying to think what other songs live I've EVER heard Tambourine on... maybe WDYL, but I can't think of any others.
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Post by Roughie »

vince wrote:Isle of Wright

here were 1 million, perhaps more, people by ticket sale count. The most popular groups of the day were on the program. We were proceeded by Emmerson, Lake and Palmer (With live cannon).
Every group put on their best, playing their most popular, signature music. All, except the Doors. Jim, as usual came out to the mic after the guys had begun playing the music. He stood at the mic like a statue. He let the mic make the sounds, He sang the notes with about as much enthusiasm as a kitchen sponge. I was going to suggest earthworm but they are far more animated.

I can assume that all they people on the Forum have been to performances, maybe even of the original group. You all know that the musicians in the group get quite excited, animated, vigorous. I have to say that Ray, John and Robby were really for more exciting to watch and hear than Jim. One could almost say that he sang in a monotone. It was dull, boring, lackluster, disappointing. I would have to suggest that he had more activity, more enthusiasm in recording sessions than he did no that stage.

When one asks what Jim did to make The performance a disappointment, you would really have to ask, "What did Jim Not do".I suppose if you want a simple answer (From me???) you would have to say - Nothing.

Never one short of words let me go further - It was more exciting listening to a recording than it was to attend that particular performance.

I want to make it clear. He sang every song, all the words. He did not miss a cue, go off pitch or do anything to alter, modify or emasculate any of the pieces. He was, compared to other performances, like a statue with a speaker in it's mouth.

The guys felt that the performance sould have been like Singer Bowl where he flopped on the floor, or as some of the early 1968 performances that were so active, dynamic physically exciting. He moved about the stage, he gestured, he used his voice like a whip. They just felt shamed in fromt of other groups. After all, they came there with a reputation for the unpredictable, the radical. They left people wondering what all the fuss was about. The Joni Mitchell, even Tiptoes in the tulips was more exciting. Emerson et al was the hit of the day. We followed them. It was like a ad break during a horror show.

Somewhat similar to New Orleans (Yet to come) Jim left first - but not so abruptly - and the group followed. John was furious, Ray and Robby were grim and that was the beginning of "The End". The Music was nearly over. A very sad day.

You know I was thinking of a closing. Sort of a Zing line. It occurs to me that if you wanted a more perfect musical performance you could not have had it. If you wanted a funeral dirge, this was it. I think that Someone, perhaps me, described Jim as standing like a wet towel draped over the mic stand. I think that describes just how exciting it was.

You could get a better stiffy by watching grass grow.

I do hope that aptly describes the event.

Vince
Thanks Vince. =) And how did you know watching grass grows gives me a stiffy?
Starting pre production on a sketch show. More soon.

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thedoorsbootlegs
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Post by thedoorsbootlegs »

universalmind69 wrote:this is the only color shot circulating, there are several more bw shots

Image
Cool photo!
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Post by vince »

In all responses to this Dallas performance I would refer all to my original reply to inquiry. It is about all that needs be said.

Regards the various newspaper articles suggesting a 1971 tour - There was no tour planned. No one knew the outcome of the Miami appeal which could have put Jim in prison had it gone awry. Then too - The Doors decided, after Isle of Wright, that they would not play with Jim as singer again. If you recall, Dallas/NewOrleans was a go-no go event. It was the deciding factor in the Doors future with Jim.

Think about this one. If there were solid plans for a 1971 tour it would have been made with plans flexible enough that, should Jim fail to meet the standards of the December tour, they would have another singer in place. You can see that "Other VOices" if this be true, was already in more than planning stage.

Keep in mind that, beause of Bill Siddon's paranoia, I was nver allowed to be present at planning meetings. I cannot telly ou the situation regarding the future of the group at the time of the Dallas show. One thing is certain - This as the deciding point for Jim's future with the group.

If, as is suggested in this article, Ray said "It's Over", you can be sure that the show was, in reality, over for Jim. It is possible that with a perfect performance in New Orleans jim might have redeemed himself.

BUT - Consider. With Ray's pronouncement Jim had nothing to gain or lose. That might be the one missing clue to what happened in New Orleans. Jim didn't care what he did. It was over in any case.

John did not kick Jim in the back. John could not physically kick jim in the back, nor would he have done so. Remember that John is sitting on a drum stool, behind a bass drum and surropunded by a forest of cymbal, mike and floor tom legs and stands.

My impression of the Dallas performance is as indicated in my initial response. No need to further elaborate.

Second show - It was planned and tackets were sold - so few that the promotor invited people to stay so the hall would at least appear to have some attendance. That has to telly ou something.
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Post by hardrockcafe »

A 1920s image of the Texas State Fair Music Hall:

Image
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