The Doors Forum

An interesting debate, whether it be content or album cover art.

Up until Sgt Peppers every Beatle album released here was quite different than the UK releases. The Beatles weren't alone: Donovan's Sunshine Superman was not available in the UK for quite a while...you all had to settle for hoping to get a US import.

What's your favorite debatable release. The USA release of Hard Day's Night & Help were disappointing for me....I didn't want the incidental music AT ALL!! So I was very happy when I finally got my UK imports. The other early UK albums were off the radar so I was happy with the Capitol "butchered" LPs, like Yesterday & Today, Meet The Beatles etc.


RUBBER SOUL

But as John9 [a member at Trobens'] said, Rubber Soul & Revolver are very different for us.
J9 thinks Rubber Soul is importantly opened with the iconic portal track, "Drive My Car". When I heard it on the UK version I was stunned...it was an awful opener, though I loved the song, it had no place on the masterpiece. (that's what 100's of listens to the Capitol release will do). For the US fans the Capitol version is most importantly opened with "I've Just Seen A Face". We had no idea it was released on the UK "HELP!" vinyl. It was brand new and a revelation...nothing like we had heard before and was the perfect opener for Rubber Soul.

Nowhere Man was absent from the US, as was "What Goes On" which is totally out of place on this first serious Beatle album (no Rubber Soul singles released here from the Capitol vinyl). The wonderful USA version inspired Brian Wilson to create Pet Sounds and the US version seemed like a concept album to us, & to Brian Wilson. The UK version just seems like another mix of whatever, however, to those unused to it.

ANd side two was more importantly opened with "It's Only Love"...another UK "HELP!" track.

I suggest, that we that care, should listen to each variation and see what we think now. I am guessing it won't change our hearts at all!

[8D]

Track listings....

UK release

All songs written and composed by Lennon–McCartney except where noted.

Side one
No. Title Lead vocals Length

1. "Drive My Car" McCartney 2:25
2. "Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown)" Lennon 2:01
3. "You Won't See Me" McCartney 3:18
4. "Nowhere Man" Lennon, McCartney and Harrison 2:40
5. "Think for Yourself" (George Harrison) Harrison 2:16
6. "The Word" Lennon with McCartney and Harrison 2:41
7. "Michelle" McCartney 2:40

Side two

1. "What Goes On" (Lennon/McCartney/Richard Starkey) Starr 2:47
2. "Girl" Lennon 2:30
3. "I'm Looking Through You" McCartney 2:23
4. "In My Life" Lennon and McCartney 2:24
5. "Wait" Lennon and McCartney 2:12
6. "If I Needed Someone" (Harrison) Harrison 2:20
7. "Run for Your Life" Lennon 2:18
------------------------------------------------------------

North American version

All songs written and composed by Lennon–McCartney except where noted.

Side one

No. Title Lead vocals Length
1. "I've Just Seen a Face" McCartney 2:07
2. "Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown)" Lennon 2:05
3. "You Won't See Me" McCartney 3:22
4. "Think for Yourself" (Harrison) Harrison 2:19
5. "The Word" Lennon with McCartney and Harrison 2:43
6. "Michelle" McCartney 2:42

Side two

No. Title Lead vocals Length

1. "It's Only Love" Lennon 1:55
2. "Girl" Lennon 2:33
3. "I'm Looking Through You" McCartney 2:31
4. "In My Life" Lennon and McCartney 2:27
5. "Wait" Lennon and McCartney 2:16
6. "Run for Your Life" Lennon 2:18

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REVOLVER

US Capitol release

The original US LP release of Revolver, the band's tenth on Capitol Records and twelfth US album, marked the last time Capitol would release an altered UK Beatles album for the US market. As three of its tracks—"I'm Only Sleeping", "And Your Bird Can Sing" and "Doctor Robert"—had been used for the earlier Yesterday and Today Capitol compilation, they were simply removed in the US version, yielding an 11 track album instead of the UK version's 14 and shortening the time to 28:20.

The album's 30 April 1987 release on CD standardised the track listing to the original UK version. Having been available only as an import in the US in the past, the 14 track UK version of the album was also issued domestically in the US on LP and cassette on 21 July 1987. The CD was remastered in 2009.
-wiki

THIS WON'T BE AN ISSUE AT ALL FOR POST-1987 "BABIES", OF COURSE, WHO NEVER HEARD THE VARIATIONS OVER HERE!!


I don't mind the UK version of REVOLVER though it was jarring for me at first also... the originally deleted, but now "added" tracks interrupted the familiar flow of my favorite Beatle album and also made it seem less serious; though I love all those songs ("I'm Only Sleeping" being another landmark psychedelic song by Lennon"). To us it just seemed old, since we'd had it on Yesterday & Today.

John Beatle was really pissed with Capitol for all their messing about with their albums intended for US release, of course...hence the "Butcher Cover"! Capitol was butchering their "babies"...their "children", are what all artists think of their creations.

UK RELEASE

All songs written and composed by Lennon–McCartney, except where noted.

Side one
No. Title Lead vocals Length
1. "Taxman" (George Harrison) Harrison 2:39
2. "Eleanor Rigby" McCartney 2:08
3. "I'm Only Sleeping" Lennon 3:02
4. "Love You To" (Harrison) Harrison 3:01
5. "Here, There and Everywhere" McCartney 2:26
6. "Yellow Submarine" Starr 2:40
7. "She Said She Said" Lennon 2:37
Side two
No. Title Lead vocals Length
1. "Good Day Sunshine" McCartney 2:10
2. "And Your Bird Can Sing" Lennon 2:02
3. "For No One" McCartney 2:01
4. "Doctor Robert" Lennon 2:15
5. "I Want to Tell You" (Harrison) Harrison 2:30
6. "Got to Get You into My Life" McCartney 2:31
7. "Tomorrow Never Knows" Lennon 2:57

North American Release

All songs written and composed by Lennon–McCartney, except where noted.
Side one
No. Title Lead vocals Length
1. "Taxman" (George Harrison) Harrison 2:39
2. "Eleanor Rigby" McCartney 2:08
3. "Love You To" (Harrison) Harrison 3:01
4. "Here, There and Everywhere" McCartney 2:26
5. "Yellow Submarine" Starr 2:40
6. "She Said She Said" Lennon 2:37

Side two

No. Title Lead vocals Length
1. "Good Day Sunshine" McCartney 2:10
2. "For No One" McCartney 2:01
3. "I Want to Tell You" (Harrison) Harrison 2:30
4. "Got to Get You into My Life" McCartney 2:31
5. "Tomorrow Never Knows" Lennon 2:57

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We can go back to the earlier Beatle album variations but those aren't an issue for me...anyone else?

So what UK vs USA albums are an issue or joy for you?

[8D]

And the '68 California psych band, KAK, would never have flown in the UK.





I shared it with a UK friend and he said..."What did you say their name was?!! KAK?!! The UK censors would never have allowed it. They even censored the word from BBC TV."

So what does it mean, UK friends, I forget?

My favorite song...

"Lemonade Kid" by KAK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gddotLV2gI

Trieulogy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVyZ3HFK ... re=related

Then there's the difference between various releases of the SAME album....mono. stereo, quad....not the newer CDs with bonus tracks--they don't count! [;)]






I have a second pressing Veejay...only worth about $250....boo hoo!



Anyone else have one..or a counterfeit?

A Comprehensive Discography
& Price Guide for VJLP-1062

By Perry Cox, Robert York, Mitch McGeary and Bruce Spizer

Revised August 2000. © 1995-2001 All rights reserved


The worlds most counterfeited album

Welcome to our Vee-Jay Introducing The Beatles page. It seems almost every copy of this album that turns up is a fake, due to the fact that several different companies in the 60s and through the 70s manufactured an endless array of different counterfeit versions. Add those to the more than 30 different authentic versions that VJ managed to produce in 1963 and 1964, and you have quite a complicated situation for collectors and historians. More variations of this album exist than perhaps any record every issued by any artist. It is the most frequently asked about LP on the Internet, and probably causes the most confusion for collectors of any Beatles album ever released. Some of these fakes are remarkably close to the originals, with the quality of some covers even equaling or exceeding that of originals, making them a little harder to authenticate. Fortunately, there are easily identifiable clues in most cases, which we will cover thoroughly.

This Reference Guide was made to help both the novice and the experienced collector identify and authenticate copies of Introducing The Beatles, including both real and counterfeit issues, and to determine their rarity and value. We welcome any comments, suggestions, additions, and/or corrections for this page.

The values given are for records in VG+ condition. Records in true Near Mint to Mint condition, which are very difficult to find, would in most cases command noticeably higher prices. Both the discs AND the jackets need to be checked for variations and authenticity. We have found, like with other records, that discs and jackets get mixed up, intentional or otherwise. Also, many mono discs were incorrectly issued from the factory with stereo labels, so check the trail-off area for an "S" suffix to the master number, and/or play the record for stereo vs. mono sound.

The Number listed is the new unique reference number assigned to all variations and releases for Bruce Spizer's VJ book and Perry Cox's upcoming Beatles 4th edition Price Guide. These numbers will be used by many collectors to help identify and classify the endless array of variations and will most likely be used on sales lists as well.

New Guide numbering system: M = mono, S = stereo, C = cover, R = record (disc)
On the first example below, VJ 1062 (1).MC1 would read as:
"VJ 1062, version (1), mono cover, variation 1"

"LP/M" refers to the words "LONGPLAYING" and "MICROGROOVE", which appear on some of the labels.

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MONO COVERS - VERSION I
Number Description Value
VJ 1062 (1).MC1 Ad-back (Story of the Ad-Back) $1500
VJ 1062 (1).MC2A Blank back / with "Printed in USA" on front cover $1200
VJ 1062 (1).MC2B Blank back / without "Printed in USA" on front cover $1200
VJ 1062 (1).MC3 titles on back (also known as "column back") $700
STEREO COVERS - VERSION I
Number Description Value
VJ 1062 (1).SC1 Ad-back $3500
VJ 1062 (1).SC2A Blank back / with "Printed in USA" on front cover $2500
VJ 1062 (1).SC2B Blank back / without "Printed in USA" on front cover $2500
VJ 1062 (1).SC3 titles on back (originals are very scarce, almost all copies of this version
that turn up are counterfeit) $7000
MONO COVERS - VERSION II
Number Description Value
VJ 1062 (2).MC1A "Please Please Me" with no comma $75
VJ 1062 (2).MC1B "Please, Please Me" with comma $100
VJ 1062 (2).MC1C "Please, Please Me" with comma / number "2" on back cover $100
VJ 1062 (2).MC1D titles on back / pasteover $650
STEREO COVERS - VERSION II
Number Description Value
VJ 1062 (2).SC1 titles on back $500
VJ 1062 (2).SC2 titles on back / mono cover w/white "Stereophonic" sticker $700
VJ 1062 (2).SC3 titles on back / mono cover w/gold foil "Stereo" sticker $800
VJ 1062 (2).SC4 titles on back / mono cover w/ "Stereo" embossed $800



MONO DISCS - VERSION I
Number Logo Label Description LP/M Plant Value
VJ 1062 (1).MR1A oval colorband centered titles yes ARP $400
VJ 1062 (1).MR1B oval colorband left justified titles no MR $400
VJ 1062 (1).MR1C oval colorband left justified titles yes SP $400
VJ 1062 (1).MR2 oval colorband "45" size label no MR $500
VJ 1062 (1).MR3 brackets colorband no ARC $1000
STEREO DISCS - VERSION 1
Number Logo Label Description LP/M Plant Value
VJ 1062 (1).SR1A oval colorband centered titles / "Stereo" @12:00 yes ARP $2000
VJ 1062 (1).SR1B(i) oval colorband left justified titles / "Stereo" @3:00 no MR $1700
VJ 1062 (1).SR1B(ii) oval colorband left justified titles / "Stereo" @9:00 no MR $1700
MONO DISCS - VERSION II
Number Logo Label Description LP/M Plant Value
VJ 1062 (2).MR1A oval colorband left justified titles no SP $200
VJ 1062 (2).MR1B oval colorband left justified titles no COL $200
VJ 1062 (2).MR2A brackets colorband centered titles yes ARP $100
VJ 1062 (2).MR2B brackets colorband left justified titles no MR $100
VJ 1062 (2).MR2C brackets colorband left justified titles yes SP $100
VJ 1062 (2).MR2D(i) brackets colorband left justified titles / indented credits / "LONGPLAYING" one word yes ARC $100
VJ 1062 (2).MR2D(ii) brackets colorband left justified titles / indented credits / "LONG PLAYING" two words yes ARC $100
VJ 1062 (2).MR2E brackets colorband left justified titles / "SIDE" (all caps) no W? $100
VJ 1062 (2).MR3 brackets (small) colorband "45" size label no ARP $200
VJ 1062 (2).MR4A VJ block logo silver on black "SIDE" (all caps) no COL $100
VJ 1062 (2).MR4B VJ block logo silver on black "Side" (not all caps) no COL $100
VJ 1062 (2).MR5 oval silver on black no COL? $200
VJ 1062 (2).MR6 brackets (small) silver on black no SP $800
STEREO DISCS - VERSION II
Number Logo Label Description LP/M Plant Value
VJ 1062 (2).SR1A oval colorband left justified titles
(Existence Unconfirmed) yes ARP $700
VJ 1062 (2).SR1B oval colorband centered titles
(Existence Unconfirmed) no MR $700
VJ 1062 (2).SR2A brackets colorband centered titles / "Stereo" @12:00 yes ARP $500
VJ 1062 (2).SR2B(i) brackets colorband left justified titles / "Stereo" @3:00 / stereo in medium print / "Side" (not all caps) no MR $500
VJ 1062 (2).SR2B(ii)a brackets colorband left justified titles / "Stereo" @3:00 / stereo in small print / "Side" (not all caps) no MR $500
VJ 1062 (2).SR2B(ii)b brackets colorband left justified titles / "Stereo" @3:00 / stereo in small print / "SIDE" (all caps) no MR $500
VJ 1062 (2).SR2C brackets colorband left justified titles / indented credits / "Stereo" printed twice on label yes ARC $500
VJ 1062 (2).SR3 oval colorband "45" size label / "Stereo" @3:00 no MR $850
VJ 1062 (2).SR4A VJ block logo silver on black thick "Stereo" @9:00 no COL $600
VJ 1062 (2).SR4B VJ block logo silver on black thin "Stereo" @9:00

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Album History and Counterfeit detection

Perhaps the most distinctive component in the history of Beatles records is the album Introducing The Beatles (Vee-Jay VJLP/SR-1062). This eccentric LP is distinctive on many fronts, not the least of which is that its dozen tracks have proliferated into over two dozen subsequent albums and singles.

This early 1964 product of Chicago's Vee-Jay label competed heartily in the marketplace, right along with the big boys over at Capitol. As a small, independent company with a big hit record on their hands, Vee-Jay and their vendors labored around the clock to meet the enormous demand for this LP. Although a huge seller, its sales life was cut short by litigation with Capitol. Unable to endure costly legal battles, Vee-Jay reached a settlement with Capitol under which its rights to all of its Beatles recordings were turned over to Capitol on October 15, 1964.

Not surprisingly, most of the world's rare and valuable records, including Introducing the Beatles, have been counterfeited -numerous times and in a myriad of variations. It is probably the most counterfeited record in history, and deserving of consideration for a gold or platinum award in the category: Rock Album Most Frequently Faked.

With so many different bogus copies floating around, perhaps we should begin by giving a precise description of the original album. Knowing how to spot an original is one of the best weapons against getting stuck with a pretender.

The first issue covers were manufactured in Chicago by the offset printing firm Coburn & Company just after July 23rd 1963. This company printed up the first 6000 front slicks and back liner notes. These 6000 are the only cover slicks that say "Printed in U.S.A" on the front cover, vertically from the bottom left corner along the spine. Later covers were printed by Ivy Hill Lithograph Co. at their New York and California locations. All original covers have a glossy coated paper stock, both front and back. If either the front or the back cover is flat (lacking gloss) it's a counterfeit.

Although color shades do vary on originals, the printing of the photo and text is always very sharp and clear. Any with poor quality printing are probably counterfeits. All legitimate covers are made using varying shades of gray or tan cardboard, with the printed front and back slicks bonded on them. All original covers we have seen have a 1/4" overlap of cardboard at the top and bottom of the inside cover. This check can only be made by viewing the inside of the cover at the top and at the bottom. On most fakes, these overlaps are either much larger than 1/4", or there is no flap at all. The California plant made a small quantity of original monaural covers that have no flap at all, but they still have the glossy back cover slick as well as high quality printing. Also, these come with an authentic disc inside, yet another way to help determine originality.

A few counterfeits do have covers with high quality printing, but their overall construction and/or disc quality are noticeably imperfect.

While it is very helpful to have a known original on hand for comparison, few folks have that luxury. When this is not possible, use the following checklist to make a determination regarding authenticity.

Some of the more common characteristics found on COUNTERFEIT COVERS:

* Covers with a brown border around the front cover photo are fakes.
* Covers with a bright yellow tint and the word "STEREO" printed in black at the upper left are fakes.
* Covers without George Harrison's shadow-visible to his right of where he stands, near the edge are fakes.
* Covers with red, blue, and yellow dots, unmistakable under the top of the back cover, are fakes. The dots are used by the printers during the printing process. On originals, the dots are in a different area and are not normally visible. (This fake is of particular importance due to the high quality of the front cover photo. For that reason, this cover has fooled many a collector. Look for the dots! Fake covers are almost always accompanied by a fake disc.)
* Covers for the stereo issue that list Love Me Do and P. S. I Love You, among the two columns of tracks on the back, are almost always fakes. Only a couple of authentic copies of these versions are known to exist.
* If either the front or the back cover is flat (lacking gloss) it's is a counterfeit.

Some of the more common characteristics found on COUNTERFEIT DISCS:

* Any labels with flat textured rainbow/colorband labels are fakes.
* Labels that have "THE BEATLES" and "INTRODUCING The BEATLES" separated by the center hole are fakes.
* If the width of the vinyl trail-off -the gap between the end of the last track and the edge of the label is greater than one inch, you have a fake.
* Any copy with black labels that do not have the rainbow colorband, that are printed on glossy paper stock, are fakes.
* Copies with rainbow/colorband labels that have faint print and/or weak color brightness and a lack of clarity are fakes.

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Some of the more common characteristics found on ORIGINAL COVERS:

* Covers-front and back-must have slicks that are either glossy or semi-glossy.
* Printing on covers must be of high quality and professional looking.
* Back cover lists contents in two columns
* Stereo copies must meet one of the following conditions:

1. Back cover pictures 25 color photos of other Vee-Jay albums. This copy is commonly known as the "Ad Back" cover.
2. Back cover is totally blank; a completely white slick with no print whatsoever.
3. Back cover lists content in two columns, almost always containing Please Please Me and Ask Me Why. Only a couple of original copies have been verified listing Love Me Do / P.S. I Love You.

Some of the more common characteristics found on ORIGINAL DISCS:

* Labels have "THE BEATLES" and the title "INTRODUCING THE BEATLES" above the center hole.
* Only gloss or semi-gloss rainbow/colorband labels are used on originals.
* All original labels have bright, sharp silver print.
* The vinyl trail-off -the gap between the end of the last track and the edge of the label usually measures from 7/8" to 1" wide, but never greater.
* The rainbow/colorband that circles the perimeter of an original label is of high resolution, with smooth, gradual changes in color.
* The vinyl trail-off area on over 90% of all originals has one or more of the following mechanical Stampings:

1. The term "AudioMatrix."
2. The letters "MR" inside of a circle.
3. The letters "APP" in italics. Among originals, only those made in Santa Monica lack machine Stampings. Regardless, these still have the aforementioned bright silver print and glossy labels. To date, we have never seen a counterfeit copy with machine stamping in the trail-off area.

* We have never found a counterfeit with the word "STEREO" printed on the label.
* Any copy with "STEREO" printed on the label is more than likely an original.
* All originals with black labels that do not have the rainbow colorband are printed on a flat-not glossy-paper stock.
* Any item under scrutiny must measure up in all the above areas of originality testing. If either the cover, disc or label fails even one criterion of the test, then it is likely from that secluded, middle Eastern country: Itsa Faykuh!

Original Inner Sleeves

The color inner sleeves have one of the following headers on either side:

"THE GREAT GOSPEL ARTISTS ARE ON VJ"

"OTHER FINE ALBUMS OF SIGNIFICANT INTEREST"

Vee-Jay used three different inner protective disc sleeves:

Plain white sleeve This is the most common sleeve used on Introducing The Beatles.
White background sleeve White background with 25 color photos of other albums on the Vee-Jay record label on each side of the sleeve. Issued with some original copies of Introducing The Beatles. One side of the sleeve used the same 25 mini photos as the "Ad-Back" LP.
Red background sleeve Red background with 25 color photos of other albums on the Vee-Jay record label on each side of the sleeve. This style was NOT used with any copies of Introducing The Beatles lps as they were printed and shipped after VeeJay discontinued pressing this lp. This sleeve was shipped on Oct. 22, 1964.


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VeeJay really made this fun. I once had a really BAD fake
"Introducing The Beatles"...it played so badly I threw it out. My original MONO is really sweet and plays perfect!

Anyone else have a rare album? I'm not talking about boots...well boots are ok too...Dylan's The Great White Wonder from 1969 is the FIRST notable bootleg.



Great White Wonder, or GWW, is the first notable rock bootleg album, released in July of 1969 and containing illicit recordings by Bob Dylan. It is also the first release of the famous bootleg record label Trademark of Quality (or TMQ). Several of the tracks present here were recorded with the Band in the summer of 1967 in West Saugerties, New York, during the informal sessions that would go on to produce Dylan's 1975 album The Basement Tapes. It was the first time that these previously unheard of recordings came to the market; many more would be released in similar formats over the coming years. Much of the other material consists of a recording made in December of 1961 in a Minnesota hotel room (referred to as the "Minnesota hotel tape"), studio outtakes from several of Dylan's albums, and a live performance on The Johnny Cash Show. The album was nicknamed the "great white wonder" due to its original pressing's plain white sleeve. Newer pressings contain the name stamped on.