The Doors Forum

Vince,

With all due respect, and based only on what I heard on the Doors "Collection" DVD (commentary), Ray said you really liked throwing people off the stage.

If so, could you share your favorate incident angle, vector force, or technique not o/w stated? Did you favor the scalp and beltloop method, or the leg and arm swing? Maybe the trunk punch....use of weapons, etc. Did you ever use the 'drumstick to the neck' or possibly one of Jim's maraca's over the head?

Perhaps your most memorable or favorite such stoppage?

tongue in cheek

By the way - I forgot one of your points. I never used Jim's moracca's or tamborines. I might have broken them and then Jim would have been upset. He was usually upset enought of the latest Pam incident without adding insult to injury.

Besides, If Jim got upset I might have lost control and I absloutely could not have that happen. I had to keep him just on the edge where I could keep control yet he could be wild enought to entertain the Band Boys.

The same with Robby's real glass bottleneck. I could have slashed a few faces for effect - that would have set an example to the rest of the crowd. But again, someone would have been injured and I really was not interested in that side effect.

What was the best - Well there was a photo of it. I was caught on fim just as I was about to kick some kid in the head. There is another photo of me and a BB about to attack some hapless kid who had made it about half way across the stage.

Well, I guess that about wraps it up.

Oh my God. I brought this up, sort of jokingly, certainly thinking you wouldn't have used a drumstick! I like you more and more every day, man!

Wow!
It looks as if this side of the job gave you the experience to be part of the President's Secret Service security detail. I can just picture you in a polyester suit, wearing an earpiece...

were police or uniformed securrity personnel present at concerts to enforce security?

Must have been something like this......

strongbow wrote:were police or uniformed securrity personnel present at concerts to enforce security?

no, you fool!- Vince was there.

Yes - the police were there. Usually lines up along the front of the stage. But you know, when members of the audience decided to join the Band Boys for an exclusive seat right in the modst of the Boys, they were thinking of how close retirement was, maybe getting home to wife and kids instead of hospital, perhaps worried about their ability of have decendants. So generally, they discretely moved aside and let me handle it. During the mele we often gave them advice on crowd control without chemicals - or violence. I abhore violence. I wouldn't hurt a fly - unless it came ear me.

No the picture that Freed posted is just about what happened in New Orleans. Jim took the shaft of the broken mike stand and hurled it out into the audience.

No my direct responce to the question of whether police were there. It was usually mandated by the city fathers that the promotor had to hire police or some security outfit to make sure things did not get out of control. However, it was usually left up to us to take care of things. Of course we didn't get extra pay for hazardous duty.

The use of drumstick was restricted to a few whacks along the arms, shoulders, bum or legs. It was ful to watch the facial expression change from pain to pleasure.

But, you know when it got so close that we could take a whack or two at the transgressors things had gone beyond the safe margin. There is a saying about how an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I had a different outlook, A kick in time saves whacking nine.
Damn - that was fun. I just get all goose-bumps just thinking about it. Letss have a concert just for old times sake.

Now I would not want you all to think I was violent or anything like that. I always told the BB that they must never put anyone in the hospital. Broken arm or a few teeth - that was OK. But don't hurt anyone.

Nephron - Let me tell you, the drum sticks were nothing compared to a pair of cannon connectors on the ends of 4 foot mike cords - Basically like nunchucks or cat-o-nine-tails.

You know I had to learn all these things - like OJT. Remember I was a very placid, quiet, builder of Musical instruments before I came with the Doors. Beating people was the most remote of thoughts.



It alwaysed me - one minute they were so anxious to get on stage and after a gentle application of the mike cord the seemed to find that they had business elsewhere. Strange. I always wondered what distracted them.

I have always wondered, what the police is doing there in the first place.

It is a private arranged show!

Arranged by booking agents, promoters and managers.

Why the need to have a public service present?

I know a permit has to be issued by the chief of police.

I have never seen a policeman to concerts in Denmark, let alone handling the security.

At Singer Bowl, August 1968, you see the police on stage, blocking the view.

And their prescence seems to have caused more problems than solutions, ie New Haven and Miami.

Hamlet - You must be from Denmark, if I recall correctly.

In the USA, it is the requirement that when a large public event is held that a security force be present in case of riot, fighting, fire or other trouble.

When the "Police" are these they are off Duty policemen, hired by the promotors to provide the required security. They are not officially on their normal work schedule as pat of the city police force.

In Singer Bowl, when the riot started, the police ran for cover. We, Ken Kawalsky, and I an the Organist for the Here We are - Toni Parisi were left to fend for ourselves.

In Miami - the police did nothing. There was not riot. The was a disruption of the show by the promotor who pushed Jim off stage. Jim did grab the cop's cap and toss it into the audience. Jim later appologised to the man, who laughed it off. I belive Bill stepped into the moment and gave the office some money to replace the cap and the incident was forgotten.

It was the city prosecutor, running for re-election, wanting a celebrity case to boost his cause, who started the process whereby Jim was eventually arrested and falsely accused of exposing himself.
Yes, he did take his shirt off - It was about 35 degrees in that place. Yes, thousands of kids did get totally, absolutely stark naked. They did NOT snake dance around - they could not, the room was packed,

But rest assured, the police DID NOT instigate any action against Jim or the Doors for that performance. There was no riot, fighting or other public disturbance that night.

New Haven resulted form Jim being ordered out of his dressing room by a black cop. When Jim refused, the cop sprayed him with mace. Jim had been drinking, it is true. When he went on stage he told the story of the macing to the sudience. The police had made appologies, even from the cop who did the spraying, and though the issue was ended. When Jim told the story they were really angry.
However, Jim,as always, taunted them. When he used the "F" word

"The whole "F.....g" world hates me..." they arested him for intoxication and lewd conduct. Charges were later dropped.

It was mt efforts ot remove the equipment from the stage and get it packed and into the waiting truck that resulted in my working with the group.

I suppose I owe the New Haven Police a debt of gratitude.

In any case - in these 3 incidents, the off duty police or security staff did not directly cause trouble. In New Haven, jim deliberately brought trouble on himself.

I hope that properly responds to your inquiry.

My Aunt and her husband are buried in Kobenhavn. Erik and Elaine Hagemann. My aunt married Erik the day that the German army invaded Dansk and marched into the city.

Hey, thank you for the explanation.

I have tried to find that post of yours, where you explained that you played a churchorgan, when you were in Denmark.

- But, it got lost in the meltdown of the forum.

Your aunt was married to Erik Hagemann on April the 9th, 1940.

Once again, thank you!

When with the Doors in 1968 we were scheduled to play in the city. We arrived early and I have the chance to visit with my Aunt and Eric. Elaine took me on a tour of the city. We stopped at the chapel of the Navel school or museum. We also visited the Brick Cathedral. The man who paid for it made apromist to heaven that should his son return unscathed from the War - he would build a church. He did and he did. I was granted the privelage of playing the exquisit organ there in that incredible acoustical environment.

What struck me most was the age of the buildings, beauty of the outer areas around the city and how clean everything was.

I had the opportunity to play several fine organs along the line - None in Sweden though - England, Holland and Dansk. Fun for a lifetime.

Thanks for your posts. Welcome to the forum.

to watch the facial expression change from pain to pleasure.

Did you mean pleasure to pain? Or am I missing something about the 60's? If somebody shoved a drumstick up my ass, I wouldn't be laughing, lol.

!!!! I just realized my post and my sig make me look pretty 'anal'. Alas, it ain't true. Man, I promise it ain't true!

when you first signed on as equipment manager, and then subsequently got promoted to road manger a few months later, did you have any idea that stage tossing would be part of your duties? The Doors hired you to work the stage equipment and sound system and the next thing you know, police are discreetly stepping aside to let you handle crowd control.

what a great topic! i can picture vince just waiting for the next invador and - splash - off he goes! i´d love to see these pictures you are talking about. any chance you could scan and then post them here?

When I spoke to Dan Asher by phone, he did not mention the hazardous duties. But then - I guess he didn't ex[ect any. The stage invasions became more frequesnt asn the group become more popular.

I didn't really enjoy it unless the invader was really persistant or obnoxious. It was really a contest and we had to win.

The photos I speak of are in the public domain. I don't havethem in my files or anything like that. They are among the "Notable" photos of the Doors history and can be sen if oyu know where to look. Once in a while someone posts one and says "Is that you?" If the photo shows some poor guy halfway onto the stage with the front of a boot in his mouth.... that's me. Well, that is my boot and his mouth.

It came with the job I guess. We had to protect the stage and equipment. If the security forces were unable or unwilling to have fun, we had to do it.

Once in a while some girl or guy would make it through and get directly to Jim. We did not find that as troubling as those who went for the equipment. Their direction of travel was entirely different and easy to see.

Generally Jim dealt with anyone who got to him and they were usually pretty co-operative about leaving after they got their kiss or grope or whatever. It was a bit of fun for Jim and he took it as a showman should.

The police were not discreetely stepping aside, they were pushing each other to get out of the way first and fast before the wave of rushing humanity hit.

That is not entirely fair - I have tobe honest. Most ofthe time they stood their ground and tried to keep order. They were outnumbered and we had to play the back up - rear guard action - at the edge or upstage to grab the ones that got through.

Sometimes, with the proper use of a Mike, when there were after show riots, you could distract the heard long enough to let them calm down and things ended well and without anyone being hit or otherwise hurt.

So there you go. From Expert of sound to expert of guerilla warfare.

OK, well, I was just reviewing the Roadhouse Blues video with a sharper eye than usual, I had previously noticed Vince engaged in the chaos in Cleveland, this time I saw him beating somebody with something and chasing them off the stage!
Needless to say, it was one of the funniest goddamn things I've seen in awhile..

If I was beating anyone with anything it was probably an ash baseball bat or a 2 X 4. That usually got the point across. It often broke the bat as well.

Cleveland was not all that bad. There were worse - like in Baltimore when then came over the stage like niagra in reverse.

The Kids wanted up on stage. We set a few examples and the rest remained on the floor. A couple made it to Jim I think but that was fun. Cleveland was "Busy" but not totally out of control. Mostly, they got excited and were having fun. Singer Bowl was a vicious Riot. People intended to hurt others. They threw splintered pieces of wood and tried to hit people with the 2 X 8 lumber lifted from the barriers around the stage.

Ckeveland, and a couple of other places where things got a little wild, were excitement affairs rather than injury or theft.

We did not know the intent of the person attempting to get on stage until they got on their feet and started moving. Equipment was a direct line toward the Drums or Robby's guitar. Jim was more or less just across the stage toward the center. We cared about this but Jim didn't mind all that much and often had fun with the boy or girl who made it to home base. Of course the audience loved it all, expecially if Jim made some comment.

Maimi was chaos on stage, I can't think of all the hot spots. But it was a nervous thing. We never knew what might start it or when. We can be thnkful that there were no really well planned assaults because we were out numbered, no matter what.

In all fairness, the police were in the same position. 10 cops against a front line of 100 kids - you just don't win in those odds. We could deal with the very few that made it partly or totally onto the stage. The security force usually kept that number to a very few.

Nerve wracking and exciting for a few minutes than back to nervous boredom.

Regarding on-stage happenings, does this look like Ken Kowalski?

Actually we didn't shove drumsticks up anyone's ass because we could not get them to stand still long enough to line up the shot.

Rather is was just a little beating about the head and shoulers that brought on the ecstacy.

Regarding Anal. Why does anyone worry about being anything. It is all good fun. It isn't the who or the how - it is the result. Anal or otherwise, it is the skyrockets and roman candles that is the goal.

That is Ken on the left, long blond hair somewhat like Ray's. Jim in center with Denim jacket and security guy on right.

Take a look at the size of this kid at 18 years old. With one arm he picked up a 2 X 3 Acoustic power amp over his head, the thief with the other hand and carried both of them back at arms length over his head, to stage at Singer Bowl.

The amp he gently set down. The Kid he threw, literally, across the stage and off the other side.

Ken went back to Lowell after the Singer Bowl and I have lost contact with him. He was quite the guy. Ray would ask why we needed extra security with Kenny around. He was enough to discourage anyone.