London Fog Recording

[Roughie]

I can't wait to see the photos. Can finally see what it looked like and how they looked performing there.

Any other band ever play at the Fog?

[Silver Forest]

Just posted on the LL:

Jeff, any possibility of giving us a photo sampler from the London Fog negatives you bought recently?
It might be small resolution. I suppose we all have a huge amount of curiosity of what it looks like. I wonder if the photos provides a good perpective on what the club looked like.

Also, does Ray's female friend is still alive? If so, are you planning to have her testimony in the future release?
I think it would be very interesting to have her recollections as well as from people that also been there. In addition to Ray, Robby and John, there's a few people that were around in those days that might be interesting to listen like Dennis Jakob, Paul Ferrara, Ronnie Haran (is she still alive?).

Given that there's only 30 minutes of recording I suppose a complementary stuff like these interviews and photos are critical for a release that will do justice to this seminal, evolutive and so far almost unknown period of this great band.

Let's see if we get some answers.

[Vjerchi]

I don't know if you're being ironic but in fact if there are several ones I suppose a box set like "Live in NY" would be amazing. A perfect gift for my 100 years birthday.

The New York shows/Box were excellent. However, chicken feed compared to what an Avalon Ballroom 1967 Box would be.

That said, at least we have the New York box to enjoy. An Avalon Ballroom box is probably pure fantasy.

I'm not a huge fan of the 1970 tour, but I loved the Felt Forum boxset. It's one of THE best live releases the Doors ever put out. That's what they should have done with the Aquarius shows; put them all in one boxset, plus the soundcheck.

It should have been 10/10 but Botnick made it 8/10.

[anytimecowboy]

I don't know if you're being ironic but in fact if there are several ones I suppose a box set like "Live in NY" would be amazing. A perfect gift for my 100 years birthday.

The New York shows/Box were excellent. However, chicken feed compared to what an Avalon Ballroom 1967 Box would be.

That said, at least we have the New York box to enjoy. An Avalon Ballroom box is probably pure fantasy.

I'm not a huge fan of the 1970 tour, but I loved the Felt Forum boxset. It's one of THE best live releases the Doors ever put out. That's what they should have done with the Aquarius shows; put them all in one boxset, plus the soundcheck.

There was a superb bootleg (really a pirate) box 'an aquarian symphony' released that was just that. It has both shows and the lost interview tapes, if it had the backstage and dangerous discs it would have been great. It looks just like an official BMA release, I bought it when it came out back in the day for £25. Its awesome

[anytimecowboy]

This aint it


http://img1.wantitall.co.za/images/Show ... nPS4oL.jpg

[klaus radiola]

This aint it


http://img1.wantitall.co.za/images/Show ... nPS4oL.jpg

[MajorMojo]

Am I nuts or does it seem like The Doors kind of have an abundance of material to release?

Seems like if they'd set out a schedule (2 or 3 releases a year) and stick to the old 'release bmr stuff online only' plan, we would have plenty of releases to keep us happy for a while. They could even keep pumping out the re-hashed stuff in stores and just stick a "CHECK OUT BMR ONLINE FOR LIVE DOORS" insert in every cd/record they sell in the stores.

Matrix 2.0
Fog
H-Bowl
45 set
mono cd with true mono mixes of first 2 albums and some later singles
Mono SD vinyl with bonus 45 of WFTS true mono tracks.

Feast of Friends deluxe Blu with all outtakes and commentary with Jim's friends?
more studio outtakes?
IOW cd/dvd/blu?
Europe 1968 deluxe audio/video set?
Fillmore multitrack with overdubs?
Jim's unseen written poetry?
Jim's poetry recording sessions?
HWY? with commentaries and outtakes?
OV/FC box?
Bakerfield/Seattle?
Original albums in digital hi-rez? Blu?
BMA concerts in surround sound or hi-rez?
BMA vinyl?
Robbie's book?
On the Road book reissue with all updated info?

Unheard/unseen shows in private collections aquired by the band. Ha!!

[The Royal Sperm]

don't forget about new john's book and the Collected Writigns of Jim

[StrangeNightOfStone]

Am I nuts or does it seem like The Doors kind of have an abundance of material to release?

Seems like if they'd set out a schedule (2 or 3 releases a year) and stick to the old 'release bmr stuff online only' plan, we would have plenty of releases to keep us happy for a while. They could even keep pumping out the re-hashed stuff in stores and just stick a "CHECK OUT BMR ONLINE FOR LIVE DOORS" insert in every cd/record they sell in the stores.

Matrix 2.0
Fog
H-Bowl
45 set
mono cd with true mono mixes of first 2 albums and some later singles
Mono SD vinyl with bonus 45 of WFTS true mono tracks.

Feast of Friends deluxe Blu with all outtakes and commentary with Jim's friends?
more studio outtakes?
IOW cd/dvd/blu?
Europe 1968 deluxe audio/video set?
Fillmore multitrack with overdubs?
Jim's unseen written poetry?
Jim's poetry recording sessions?
HWY? with commentaries and outtakes?
OV/FC box?
Bakerfield/Seattle?
Original albums in digital hi-rez? Blu?
BMA concerts in surround sound or hi-rez?
BMA vinyl?
Robbie's book?
On the Road book reissue with all updated info?

Unheard/unseen shows in private collections aquired by the band. Ha!!

How about all the home movies Jim and pam took in Paris?

[MajorMojo]

How about all the home movies Jim and pam took in Paris?

The ones they didn't used on the LAW or PEOPLE ARE STRANGE documentaries DVD/BLUs?

Mayby the Jim loose ends"can be also thrown in the poetry/film boxset?

[StrangeNightOfStone]

How about all the home movies Jim and pam took in Paris?

The ones they didn't used on the LAW or PEOPLE ARE STRANGE documentaries DVD/BLUs?

Mayby the Jim loose ends"can be also thrown in the poetry/film boxset?

I don't think any of the films Jim and Pam took in paris in '71 have ever been aired. I think the Coursons own those films..

[MajorMojo]

I don't know if they are not interested. But dealing with them seems to be utterly frustrating to say the least. Maybe they aren't interested. You'll never get the truth from Jeff. Sadly I think it will take the passing of the Doors or a management change before we start hearing more outtakes and live recordings. Ray was offered the '67 Village Theater 16mm footage and he said "we have enough footage". True, they have a lot from the '68 tour...but next to nothing from '67.

If Jampol works on a percentage, then there's little incentive to spend time/recources on tape aquisitions that are far less profitable than vault stuff they can soak the fans.

Hendrix estate can aquire stuff because they own masters/publishing, 1 boss and don't have a PR manager guy taking a cut.

[StrangeNightOfStone]

I don't know if they are not interested. But dealing with them seems to be utterly frustrating to say the least. Maybe they aren't interested. You'll never get the truth from Jeff. Sadly I think it will take the passing of the Doors or a management change before we start hearing more outtakes and live recordings. Ray was offered the '67 Village Theater 16mm footage and he said "we have enough footage". True, they have a lot from the '68 tour...but next to nothing from '67.

If Jampol works on a percentage, then there's little incentive to spend time/recources on tape aquisitions that are far less profitable than vault stuff they can soak the fans.

Hendrix estate can aquire stuff because they own masters/publishing, 1 boss and don't have a PR manager guy taking a cut.

I wonder if there are any tales of 'the ones that got away', i.e soundboard quality live shows or studio reels the Doors camp could have scored, but lost due to disinterest or hamfisted negotiating skills.

[MajorMojo]

On the contrary, releasing a 30 minute London Fog mono audience recording on a single CD sounds like a K-Tel budget release concept destined to have it's massive unsold inventory replete with cutout spines unloaded to Amazon marketplace sellers for pennies. The 20 minute 1987 Hollywood Bowl one-disc CD release is among the band's biggest debacles of the digital era in terms of providing the consumer the least value possible.

Your comparisons are becoming more and more outrageous.... You're, in all seriosuness, comparing an eventual and possible deluxe standalone release of the historically important and unique 1966 London Fog recording to a "K-Tel budget release concept destined to have it's massive unsold inventory replete with cutout spines unloaded to Amazon marketplace sellers for pennies" ?

Are you really that desperate to have the '67 Filmore tape come out asap? Or could it be that you're just trying to have them tie up all the "loose ends" before Dec. 21, 2012...

Like stated before by Porsche and Mystery Train etc: 3 of the six studio albums run under 35 minutes... and I, for one, haven't heard anyone complaining this fact.

This box proposal is, again, a rushed attempt at making them unload LF, Matrix and especially Fillmore all at once... nothing else.

Comparing album length of polished studio recording to a 30 minute live tape with half as many songs informally recorded is silly.

A 66-67 box would put the growth of the band in fairly full context, rather than a single early date with some photos and a couple paragraphs of Manzareks andonis hyperbole.

Plus it's a chance to release a 3-4 hour boxset of completely unheard master tapes when virtually no other high profile act from that era can do the same.

Discs under 30 minutes also have a tendancy to slip out of print quickly and will be less accesible to fans who don't buy it within their first year or two. Hendrix estate just compiled 30-40 minutes of pre-UK work as a backing musician for the very first time - released last year and exlusive to a boxset in the $50 range.

[wha happened]

But this isn't just another 30min show. It's a recording from one of the most important eras in the Doors career. Comparing it to, or releasing it with the Fillmore is like apples and oranges.

[universalmind69]

The majority of material in such a box would be the Matrix tapes...."unheard"? Perhaps in terms of master quality, but still... except for a new jam or two it's all well known material.

The Matrix is coming out, LF is coming out, can't see why Fillmore couldn't be a download only release or something similar... so, why this sudden need to rush it?
Putting the earliest and ONLY 1966 live recording into a box with an already well known and heavily bootlegged March '67 recording plus an overdubbed and partial(?) November '67 recording is what strikes me as "silly".
The LF recording's historical significance far outweighs the differences between studio and live recording lengths, that's why I concurred with others making that very same point.

Release the LF '66 recording along with the photos as a deluxe, individual release first and the other recordings will follow...

[MajorMojo]

The majority of material in such a box would be the Matrix tapes...."unheard"? Perhaps in terms of master quality, but still... except for a new jam or two it's all well known material.

Ford, Lucille, Latin BS x2 would be close to an hour of material from the Doors that can't be heard anywhere else or previously. Plus a live version of Strange Days being ciruculated for the first time.

The entire package could be upwards of 4 hours of master tapes being released for the first time.

Also, I don't think matrix has ever been compiled on any disc(even boots) in true order with banter intact.

[universalmind69]

The bottomline is that you've got no other valid argument other than wanting it all out in one go/clamoring for the Fillmore tape

London Fog: Deluxe individual release, published along with a set of the earliest live photos in existence... there's really no other justifiable way of releasing this recording.

If you can't see how unique this recording is then I suggest you read, or re-read, some of the books dealing with The Doors' 1965-66 period.
If you still do not get it, there's no helping you...that's it.

[MajorMojo]

The bottomline is that you've got no other valid argument other than wanting it all out in one go/clamoring for the Fillmore tape

London Fog: Deluxe individual release, published along with a set of the earliest live photos in existence... there's really no other justifiable way of releasing this recording.

If you can't see how unique this recording is then I suggest you read, or re-read, some of the books dealing with The Doors' 1965-66 period.
If you still do not get it, there's no helping you...that's it.

A Fog only release will:

-Sell fewer copies
-Make less money for the band
-get less favourable reviews
-treated more of a curiosity by non-hardcores that are interested
-go out of print like Phili/BYB
-be heard by fewer fans
-be seen in fewer shops
-have a smaller advertising compaign
-could DISCOURAGE projects like Fillmore/matrix/new tapes
-will only show a part of their embryonic period as a live band that full arc including ford/ravens/matrix/demo material in full context with a larger book.
-box would have the music in the forfront, whereas it may otherwise be a Fog photo book with a 30 minute cd attached.

.......than a boxset

[universalmind69]

Hey, you've certainly got it all figured out....

I stand by what I said, there's no point dragging this on longer than it has been already

[wha happened]

I think most of the BMA titles are going out of print. This show isn't even out yet, we don't have the complete set list and we don't know how it will be packaged. Now people are saying it's going to sell less copies etc...I'd like to look into your crystal ball.

This is beating a dead horse...but, what does a 1966 recording have to do with a recording made in late 1967? The band most certainly sounds very different. We don't know for sure that they do not have other Fillmore/Winterland tapes. Wouldn't it make more sense to do a Fillmore or Winterland set?

What if they obtained some Avalon shows? Throw those into a set also?

The London Fog & Matrix together is a stretch..but since they are both small clubs, I can see your point. But the Fillmore? For me, a set with those 3 shows comes off as "let's just throw this shit together" type of release and would make me think they are trying to force the fans to buy an expensive set.

[jdlaw]

This is beating a dead horse...but, what does a 1966 recording have to do with a recording made in late 1967?

Unfortunately, both recordings are only fragments, thus making them a tougher sale individually to the casual fan. Also, each recording has it's deficiencies sound quality wise for reasons already discussed. A box would be a great way to get them out there sooner rather than later and would provide greater value for money to us, the fans.

We don't know for sure that they do not have other Fillmore/Winterland tapes. Wouldn't it make more sense to do a Fillmore or Winterland set?

You're correct, we don't know. Yes, it would make more sense IF they had other Fillmore/Winterland recordings. The problem though, that you admitted yourself, is that we don't know. (I say they don't.) However, we DO know they own London Fog/Matrix/Fillmore fragment. Again, I think it benefits the fans the most to get this material out there. If they purchase further tapes in the future, then they'll be able to release them without anything being postponed, again.

What if they obtained some Avalon shows? Throw those into a set also?

A potential Avalon Ballroom box set would be AMAZING, and would most likely blow London Fog/Matrix out of the water for both performance and sound. However, the cynic in me tells me not to hold my breath on that. Know what I'm saying? Again, we know for a fact that they own London Fog/Matrix/Fillmore fragment. Why not get them out there for the fans to appreciate?

The London Fog & Matrix together is a stretch..but since they are both small clubs, I can see your point. But the Fillmore? For me, a set with those 3 shows comes off as "let's just throw this shit together" type of release and would make me think they are trying to force the fans to buy an expensive set.

If they were to bundle London Fog & Matrix together, I'd be happy. I'd give them $100 for a box of that material in a heartbeat. That said, the idea behind including the Fillmore Fragment is that with all it's problems, it might never be released. A box with the other two shows would more or less give them an excuse to get it out there. Think of it as an added bonus.

Finally, I don't think a box of the 3 shows would come across as "lets just throw this shit together" at all. (My opinion is it would be the greatest live release the Doors have EVER put out.) Even if it did, so what? We all want the material, RIGHT?? Why not get it out there? It will most likely be just as expensive if they sold them individually (and you bought all 3), then it would be bundled together.

[StrangeNightOfStone]

The bottomline is that you've got no other valid argument other than wanting it all out in one go/clamoring for the Fillmore tape

London Fog: Deluxe individual release, published along with a set of the earliest live photos in existence... there's really no other justifiable way of releasing this recording.

If you can't see how unique this recording is then I suggest you read, or re-read, some of the books dealing with The Doors' 1965-66 period.
If you still do not get it, there's no helping you...that's it.

A Fog only release will:

-Sell fewer copies
-Make less money for the band
-get less favourable reviews
-treated more of a curiosity by non-hardcores that are interested
-go out of print like Phili/BYB
-be heard by fewer fans
-be seen in fewer shops
-have a smaller advertising compaign
-could DISCOURAGE projects like Fillmore/matrix/new tapes
-will only show a part of their embryonic period as a live band that full arc including ford/ravens/matrix/demo material in full context with a larger book.
-box would have the music in the forfront, whereas it may otherwise be a Fog photo book with a 30 minute cd attached.

.......than a boxset

so are you suggesting the Doors sit and wait on releasing the London Fog until they gather other shows to release on the same cd? how long should they wait? A year? 5 years? Maybe we'll wait as long as we've been waiting for a complete Hollywood Bowl soundtrack- it's been nearlly 25 years and counting..

[djonez]

For me the best way to release london fog is to release it as a photo book with eye witness accounts and historical background. For the digital era (post cd) they could create a timeline with all concerts in their proper context. Now should be the time to salvage tapes, film and acquire eyewitness accounts etc. The music of the doors has been loved by fans of every generation, its the salesformat that is obsolete not the music.

Jeff seems clueless. He said that the market for box sets has gone. At the same time a lot of major acts are cleaning out the vaults so they can cash in before the cd disappears.

[wha happened]

I would not describe the Fillmore/Winterland show as a "fragment". It's 45 minutes, about the same length as many of the '67-'68 shows. It's 10 songs, WTMO cuts about 3 minutes into the song and the first part of BDM is missing. The other songs are complete.

[Silver Forest]

I would not describe the Fillmore/Winterland show as a "fragment". It's 45 minutes, about the same length as many of the '67-'68 shows. It's 10 songs, WTMO cuts about 3 minutes into the song and the first part of BDM is missing. The other songs are complete.

How do you rate the show? Good, very good or excellent?

[StrangeNightOfStone]

I would not describe the Fillmore/Winterland show as a "fragment". It's 45 minutes, about the same length as many of the '67-'68 shows. It's 10 songs, WTMO cuts about 3 minutes into the song and the first part of BDM is missing. The other songs are complete.

Is that the sourse show for the circulating recordings of 'Rock Me' and 'Carol'?

[Porsche]

I would not describe the Fillmore/Winterland show as a "fragment". It's 45 minutes, about the same length as many of the '67-'68 shows. It's 10 songs, WTMO cuts about 3 minutes into the song and the first part of BDM is missing. The other songs are complete.

How do you rate the show? Good, very good or excellent?

I heard John wasn't really into it that night. Almost like he wasn't even there.

[Silver Forest]

I would not describe the Fillmore/Winterland show as a "fragment". It's 45 minutes, about the same length as many of the '67-'68 shows. It's 10 songs, WTMO cuts about 3 minutes into the song and the first part of BDM is missing. The other songs are complete.

How do you rate the show? Good, very good or excellent?

I heard John wasn't really into it that night. Almost like he wasn't even there.

Haha, this explains why he wasn't captured on tape!

[wha happened]

How do you rate the show? Good, very good or excellent?

excellent