Love and The Doors

[BallroomDays67]

It’s known that The Doors were scheduled to perform with Love on 6/2/67 at the Pasadena Civic Auditorium, but later cancelled. Also, you mention in your book that someone called you and wanted to put together a Santa Monica Civic show with Love and The Doors, but that didn’t happen either. Did Love and The Doors ever actually perform on the same bill while you were a member of Love? Also, did The Sons of Adam and The Doors ever cross paths?

[MichaelStuart-Ware]

Love and The Doors absolutely did play on the same bill, but only once that I can remember.
Sorry I can't recall the name of the venue, just that it was somewhere in Southern California, probably in late-'66 or '67. I only have a mental image of a large indoor facility with a temporary stage set up. While we stood together near the back and waited to go on, The Doors finished their set with "Light My Fire."

They were having a good night. Just like the record, it was. They were tight, and Densmore was cookin.

I don't think The Sons Of Adam ever crossed paths with The Doors, at least not while I was in the group. I joined Love near the end of August in '66.

[BallroomDays67]

Thanks, Michael. Unless it was an undocumented show, it was probably '67. I'm not sure where it was, but someone will probably track down the name of the venue. Possibly Anaheim Convention Center?

[RunAlltheLights]

Hello, Michael. It's great to have you here.

The venue is said to be Modesto which supposedly took place in February '67.

[BallroomDays67]

Ah...I see that was mentioned in another thread...Modesto Skating Rink Arena.

[Buda]

Welcome Michael on the board! Great to have somebody who were there.

Here's a short review that might help you bring back the memories (April 6, 1967 Modesto):

Tom Aragon remembers, taken from mercedmusic.wordpress.com, June 12, 2010;
"I was sixteen at the time. Myself and the rest of the members of the group were
still in high school. The local promoter, Vincent Lavery (VJ productions) was our
manager at the time. Two months prior to the gigs on the poster, we opened for
the Doors in Modesto, CA at the Ice rink. They actually weren’t the headliners
on that bill. Love was the featured act. The Doors of course stole the show.
They blew everyone, including Love, right off the stage. It was interesting to
see the looks on the 13 year old girls in the front row watching Jim hump the
microphone stand. They looked intrigued and horrified at the same time. On that
gig the local music store provided all the amplification. They set up Vox Super
Beatle Amps and vocal amplification. In that day that was the priciest stuff you
could get. I recall during the last part of “The End”, Robby picked up the amp
head and dropped it to the ground. The spring reverb in those amps would produce
a thunderlike effect when you did that. The owner of the music store was at the
front of the stage screaming/pleading for him to stop. Kind of funny.
People were raving about them and they never got to see them in their true
element. It’s funny how they sounded better using our equipment versus their
brand new gear of their own."

[Lost Prophet]

Tom Aragon remembers, taken from mercedmusic.wordpress.com, June 12, 2010;
"I was sixteen at the time. Myself and the rest of the members of the group were
still in high school. The local promoter, Vincent Lavery (VJ productions) was our
manager at the time. Two months prior to the gigs on the poster, we opened for
the Doors in Modesto, CA at the Ice rink. They actually weren’t the headliners
on that bill. Love was the featured act. The Doors of course stole the show.
They blew everyone, including Love, right off the stage. It was interesting to
see the looks on the 13 year old girls in the front row watching Jim hump the
microphone stand. They looked intrigued and horrified at the same time. On that
gig the local music store provided all the amplification. They set up Vox Super
Beatle Amps and vocal amplification. In that day that was the priciest stuff you
could get. I recall during the last part of “The End”, Robby picked up the amp
head and dropped it to the ground. The spring reverb in those amps would produce
a thunderlike effect when you did that. The owner of the music store was at the
front of the stage screaming/pleading for him to stop. Kind of funny.
People were raving about them and they never got to see them in their true
element. It’s funny how they sounded better using our equipment versus their
brand new gear of their own."

So that's how Robby made that 'thunderlike effect'. Thanks, I always wanted to know that (and thanks for the article).

[Johnny Echols]

I remember the gig in Modesto, Jim and I were almost arrested, when we got into an argument with the security folks, who were off-duty cops.
They seemed to get off, [on] man handling these little girls who just wanted to touch us. One cop in particular, had a real problem with it. So the two of us got in his face.

Music is in the ear of the beholder, but I hardly think the Doors could have ever stolen a show from us, "sound wise". even in their wildest dreams.

They had no bass player. The sound was very light weight. More akin to a "lounge act" than a rock group.Teenie boppers, might have lusted after Jim, but there was no way any group, (the doors included could have touched our thing.)

Bring it on.....JE.

[jamestkirk]

I remember the gig in Modesto, Jim and I were almost arrested, when we got into an argument with the security folks, who were off-duty cops.
They seemed to get off, [on] man handling these little girls who just wanted to touch us. One cop in particular, had a real problem with it. So the two of us got in his face.

Music is in the ear of the beholder, but I hardly think the Doors could have ever stolen a show from us, "sound wise". even in their wildest dreams.

They had no bass player. The sound was very light weight. More akin to a "lounge act" than a rock group.Teenie boppers, might have lusted after Jim, but there was no way any group, (the doors included could have touched our thing.)

Bring it on.....JE.

I hear you Johnny, but I never would have had the nerve to say THAT AT THE DOORS FORUM!!


BY EVERY ACCOUNT I'VE READ, LOVE WAS CONSIDERED the KINGS OF the STRIP, EVEN BY THE DOORS....the best band to hit the Strip...and your following was amazing.

So the followed you all over to the Beanery and th eDeli after hours too...ever when you weren't playing.

Any interesting stories of those sojourns ? Weren't the riots on Sunset Strip a result of the crack down by the police reacting to the all-night teen scene (that Stills wrote about in "For What It's Worth"?)!?

[Johnny Echols]

I mean no disrespect, Jim was my "bud" we hung together, partied together, and "knew" many of the same young ladies etc.

Love took a back seat to no one, If we didn't truly believe, we had the "goods", we would have sat in the audience, and watched the show.

We all view the world, from slightly different angles.....JE.

[The Freedom Man]

You once mentioned to me about creating a "superband" together with Jim. did you ever jam with jim?

[Johnny Echols]

We kicked it at my house on Lookout mt, many many times. and often "jammed" for hours, with David Crosby, or whom ever dropped by. Tjay Cantrelli who lived down the street, would often play the flute, while Jim did what I call "stream of consciousness poetry". If I had only known at the time, there would be so much interest decades later. I would have had a recorder running twenty four seven.

It mostly is what it isn't......JE.

[lizardkingteo]

do you have any photos of you and Jim ?

[jamestkirk]

We kicked it at my house on Lookout mt, many many times. and often "jammed" for hours, with David Crosby, or whom ever dropped by. Tjay Cantrelli who lived down the street, would often play the flute, while Jim did what I call "stream of consciousness poetry". If I had only known at the time, there would be so much interest decades later. I would have had a recorder running twenty four seven.

It mostly is what it isn't......JE.

What about with Hendrix or Stills?...Stills was a favorite guitarist of mine too, and I heard he and Hendrix and Crosby jammed a lot at Stills house.

ANything interesting when the Airpalne crashed AT THE CASTLE?

[Johnny Echols]

Bryan mentioned playing with Stills and Crosby a few times, when Hendrix was present. Arthur hung with Jimi more than I did, though we did get together at the Landmark motel, where Janis, and Jimi both Jammed around the pool, with Gabor Szabo and I. It was strange, that I hadn't realized she could actually play until that day. One of the favorite past times of musicians back then, was getting together to "jam".

I don't think I should chat about the debauchery at the Castle, Some of us are a bit prudish.....JE.

[jamestkirk]

Bryan mentioned playing with Stills and Crosby a few times, when Hendrix was present. Arthur hung with Jimi more than I did, though we did get together at the Landmark motel, where Janis, and Jimi both Jammed around the pool, with Gabor Szabo and I. It was strange, that I hadn't realized she could actually play until that day. One of the favorite past times of musicians back then, was getting together to "jam".

I don't think I should chat about the debauchery at the Castle, Some of us are a bit prudish.....JE.

Ahhhh....but the memories.....I think you said in Love Story-- anything that you might imagine happening at the Playboy Mansion, happened at the Castle.

Is there a book in it, Johnny?
"The Castle--A House Is (NOT) A Motel...or is it?"

[Roughie]

Possibly an impossible question to answer, so no worries if you can't... but did any lyrics/riffs etc from those jam sessions ever end up in any Love songs or Doors songs (or whoever)?

[Johnny Echols]

jamestkirk,

I'm not sure how much interest there would be in another book about Love! Though If I did write one, I would surely "let it all hang out". After noticing how some fans react to information that doesn't quite adhere to the party line. I fear It might cause a few of them to issue a "Love" Fatwa, and Salmon Rushdie would have to make room for me in his cave!

On another topic. Arthur once said to Bryan, after noticing all the folks, hanging out at the Castle. "This is my house, it ain't no f****** motel"!

And that's the way it was. JE.

[jamestkirk]

jamestkirk,

I'm not sure how much interest there would be in another book about Love! Though If I did write one, I would surely "let it all hang out". After noticing how some fans react to information that doesn't quite adhere to the party line. I fear It might cause a few of them to issue a "Love" Fatwa, and Salmon Rushdie would have to make room for me in his cave!

On another topic. Arthur once said to Bryan, after noticing all the folks, hanging out at the Castle. "This is my house, it ain't no f****** motel"!

And that's the way it was. JE.

And so another classic was born.

...I remember Arthur saying in an interview in the 70's that he wrote about what he saw (Signed DC and so on). If it caused pain to hear, it was because it was about the pain he saw around him...it was up to the listener to find the good or positive in his songs....not Arthur. He just wrote it like he saw it. His songs were never about some pie in the sky "love story" or lover's heartache (or "chocolate rainbows") ...thank god!

[universalmind69]

Do any of you, Johnny or Michael, remember if The Doors ever opened for Love at a place called the "Cinnamon Cinder"?
The "Cinnamon Cinder" was an alcohol-free dance club situated at 11345 Ventura Blvd. in Studio City, owned by KRLA disc jockey Bob Eubanks.
The show supposedly took place in 1966, before The Doors released their debut album.
There's not a whole lot of info out there on this particular club, 15 year age-limit, Eubanks had the Beatles over there for a press conference in 1964 etc..the building's still there though, now housing the Platinum Live nightclub.

[Johnny Echols]

I don't recall that particular show at the Cinnamon Cinder. When I get back to LA, I will look through my journals, and see what, [if anything] there is on that subject. I'll get back with you on that. JE.

[universalmind69]

Thanks, Johnny....look forward to hearing whatever you may (or may not) have found!

[MichaelStuart-Ware]

If the Cinnamon Cinder gig took place before September of '66 then I wasn't there yet. I do remember we played CC at least once after the release of Da Capo, but I don't remember who played second bill. I'm thinking if it had been The Doors I would most definitely remember.

As a side note, I suppose most Doors fans have a favorite song...one that stands out (at least slightly) above all the rest. For me, that song is "The Crystal Ship." The chord structure, the lyrics and melody line, the vocal phrasing, the imagery...everything. Simply and mystically exquisite.

[Buda]

Michael, on those few occasions when Love shared the bill with the Doors, do you remember any moments that showed Jim's affection for the band, how he presented himself towards you or other members of Love. Decades after his death, Jim remains whoever you want him to be and first-hand accounts help a lot to know what really went on. Also interested to know if Arthur Lee had his differences with Jim from the beginning or that just evolved later? Thanks!

[jamestkirk]

If the Cinnamon Cinder gig took place before September of '66 then I wasn't there yet. I do remember we played CC at least once after the release of Da Capo, but I don't remember who played second bill. I'm thinking if it had been The Doors I would most definitely remember.

As a side note, I suppose most Doors fans have a favorite song...one that stands out (at least slightly) above all the rest. For me, that song is "The Crystal Ship." The chord structure, the lyrics and melody line, the vocal phrasing, the imagery...everything. Simply and mystically exquisite.

That has to be my favorite, Michael...as is the whole first LP...still have my mono vinyl that I bought back then when it was released!

My favorite Love song...tough one but "And More Again" is beautiful and always gets me....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnpkhwb8PUU

I am so glad Arthur was able to regain his old self after serving time ....and perform his opus for us all. I wish we had a live performance of the original Love doing Forever Changes complete and LIVE back in the day...don't we all!!

[MichaelStuart-Ware]

Responding to Buda... I'm not sure affection would be the right word but I think Jim probably had respect and admiration for Arthur and the group.

In spite of the fact that we were signed to the same company, The Doors and Love just didn't end up in the same place at the same time very often.

I think the only differences that Jim and Arthur ever had with each other were caused by Jim having had the run in with Arthur at the pool in '66, when Jim was on acid, and his resulting... well, I hate to use the word "fear," but unfortunately I think "fear" is accurate... of Arthur, and Arthur's growing resentment for Elektra having put so much support behind The Doors after virtually (in his mind anyway) ignoring Love.

The bottom line is that The Doors were willing to promote their recordings and make money for the label by touring extensively, and we didn't do that, so.... "one hand washes the other", the saying goes.

[Buda]

Thanks for the quick response! I heard about that pool accident on this forum and I thought that was just one part of the story so thanks for clarification!

[BallroomDays67]

The bottom line is that The Doors were willing to promote their recordings and make money for the label by touring extensively, and we didn't do that, so.... "one hand washes the other", the saying goes.

Speaking of that, in the Einarson book you mention sitting in with other bands because of Love's sporadic touring. I don't recall any details about that in "Pegasus Carousel." Which other bands did you play with?