Hi Vince
I wonder if you can answer this question for me (I'm pretty sure you can).
I know that you are not very fond of the last two Doors albums, which is understandable. However, I really love Riders On The Storm and wanted to know if, aside from all the speculation that it was performed live in New Orleans, you can remember that the Doors (with Morrison) ever performed that song live ?
I hope you can end the endless speculation surrounding this particular song.
Thanks for taking your time !
Riders On The Storm
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vince
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Riders
Boy, that is a poser. I want to say that they did because much of the material for any album was sort of "tested" ''
Then again I am not sure. It has beena long time. I did not write down the sets that were performed on any occasion. You surely understand that after this long time, things are a blur. If you mention a place and date I can bring the image back like a photo. But trying to remember all the details.... I must disappoint you.
Riders was interesting when it was recorded. Paul had special effects tapes and they were used. That could not happen on stage. It had an interesting beat and sound to it. It ws a sort of theme that characterised the original early Doors music.
If it was played anywhere it had to be in the first several minutes of the set in New Orleans. We all know that the last piece they ever played as a group was never completed. Ironic that this was the first piece that was released to introduce the Doors to the General Public.
Let's make something clear - please.
If we speak generally of the last two albums - Overall, no I would not buy them. But those two products are like many of the organ CD's that I have. I transfer the pieces I like and forget the rest. There are rare Roses among those onion patches on the last two Doors albums. It is the Blues aspects that I don't like.
I don't like blues anyway, But I suppose for those who like that style it was wonderful... but it was NOT the original style of the Doors. That was what made them popular - famos even. When they got away from that the audience did not like the music as much. The proof of it was the end of the 1972 tour.
The albums were well made. A lot of effort by Paul and Bruce went into producing the usual quality that all Doors people came to expect. Technically, there was nothing wrong. I, personally, did not like the general trend of the Music. You might like all of it. It is Purely subjective, it is personal - like you might not like the 12 pieces of Franck Music, or Boellman or Widor, maybe even Bach. I don't like Road House Blues.
There is no Doors album that is poorly Done. It is an impossibility with Rothschild and Botnick on the Board. Not to mention the players. You know, that somewhat obscure little club band that had a lucky break? It was called - The Doors. Four (that is 4) guys who had exceptional talent and made a really great team.
Then again I am not sure. It has beena long time. I did not write down the sets that were performed on any occasion. You surely understand that after this long time, things are a blur. If you mention a place and date I can bring the image back like a photo. But trying to remember all the details.... I must disappoint you.
Riders was interesting when it was recorded. Paul had special effects tapes and they were used. That could not happen on stage. It had an interesting beat and sound to it. It ws a sort of theme that characterised the original early Doors music.
If it was played anywhere it had to be in the first several minutes of the set in New Orleans. We all know that the last piece they ever played as a group was never completed. Ironic that this was the first piece that was released to introduce the Doors to the General Public.
Let's make something clear - please.
If we speak generally of the last two albums - Overall, no I would not buy them. But those two products are like many of the organ CD's that I have. I transfer the pieces I like and forget the rest. There are rare Roses among those onion patches on the last two Doors albums. It is the Blues aspects that I don't like.
I don't like blues anyway, But I suppose for those who like that style it was wonderful... but it was NOT the original style of the Doors. That was what made them popular - famos even. When they got away from that the audience did not like the music as much. The proof of it was the end of the 1972 tour.
The albums were well made. A lot of effort by Paul and Bruce went into producing the usual quality that all Doors people came to expect. Technically, there was nothing wrong. I, personally, did not like the general trend of the Music. You might like all of it. It is Purely subjective, it is personal - like you might not like the 12 pieces of Franck Music, or Boellman or Widor, maybe even Bach. I don't like Road House Blues.
There is no Doors album that is poorly Done. It is an impossibility with Rothschild and Botnick on the Board. Not to mention the players. You know, that somewhat obscure little club band that had a lucky break? It was called - The Doors. Four (that is 4) guys who had exceptional talent and made a really great team.
Vince
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number_22
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Hey Vince, thank you so much for the reply !
Well, I heard it could've also been played at the State Fair Music Hall in Dallas (December 11, 1970). There is a circulating bootleg which features three tracks from L.A. Woman, but there are rumours that Riders was played there too. Maybe this helps you remember.
That recording would certainly be worth a lot to some people...
Thanks for your time !!
Well, I heard it could've also been played at the State Fair Music Hall in Dallas (December 11, 1970). There is a circulating bootleg which features three tracks from L.A. Woman, but there are rumours that Riders was played there too. Maybe this helps you remember.
That recording would certainly be worth a lot to some people...
Thanks for your time !!
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number_22
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Still hoping that you might remember the other show I mentioned:
Hey Vince, thank you so much for the reply !
Well, I heard it could've also been played at the State Fair Music Hall in Dallas (December 11, 1970). There is a circulating bootleg which features three tracks from L.A. Woman, but there are rumours that Riders was played there too. Maybe this helps you remember.
That recording would certainly be worth a lot to some people...
Thanks for your time !!
Hey Vince, thank you so much for the reply !
Well, I heard it could've also been played at the State Fair Music Hall in Dallas (December 11, 1970). There is a circulating bootleg which features three tracks from L.A. Woman, but there are rumours that Riders was played there too. Maybe this helps you remember.
That recording would certainly be worth a lot to some people...
Thanks for your time !!
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vince
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I think that it most likely that the Roders piece might have been in Dallas more than New Orleans.
There was not a lot of real singing done in NO. The Dallas venue was two shows. They were so well attended that they invited the audience for the first show to stay for the second one.
Now for the quality - Both shows are "Good", that is Jim was not riotously drunk and he maganged to stand up during the performance and sing. These wre not outstanding shows but they were good.
Remember that this was a Trial to decide whether they would continue to perform live with Jim. This first one was his first of two tests and he was in pretty good form.
We made no recording of it as far as I know. the only copies of it would be from audience tapes and I know little about those.
There was not a lot of real singing done in NO. The Dallas venue was two shows. They were so well attended that they invited the audience for the first show to stay for the second one.
Now for the quality - Both shows are "Good", that is Jim was not riotously drunk and he maganged to stand up during the performance and sing. These wre not outstanding shows but they were good.
Remember that this was a Trial to decide whether they would continue to perform live with Jim. This first one was his first of two tests and he was in pretty good form.
We made no recording of it as far as I know. the only copies of it would be from audience tapes and I know little about those.
Vince
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number_22
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Thanks Vince for your reply. Well there is a bootleg circulating, some of the tracks were even on the official release (Boot Yer Butt). As I said these are the only known recordings of L.A. Woman, The Changeling and Love Her Madly.
These recordings are from the first show they played. I assume that if Riders was played at that show it would have been released by now. So if it was played it was at the second show.
Have you heard of all the turmoil surrounding the New Orleans recording ? The Doors Management wants it, but the guy who (supposedly) owns it, is sort of a phantom and withdrew from the deal...
I would so much love to hear Riders On The Storm in a live version, as it's one of my favourite songs.
Thanks for your time !
These recordings are from the first show they played. I assume that if Riders was played at that show it would have been released by now. So if it was played it was at the second show.
Have you heard of all the turmoil surrounding the New Orleans recording ? The Doors Management wants it, but the guy who (supposedly) owns it, is sort of a phantom and withdrew from the deal...
I would so much love to hear Riders On The Storm in a live version, as it's one of my favourite songs.
Thanks for your time !
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wha happened
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#22, Riders was most definitely played at least once live at the Dallas '70 late show. Someone else working with the band, who attended both Dallas and New Orleans, also remembered it being played at both locations. So, Dallas-yes, New Orleans-possibly.
About the 'phantom' with N-O. He is anything but a phantom, well known and approachable. There never was a 'deal', more like a slap-in-the-face offer.
About the 'phantom' with N-O. He is anything but a phantom, well known and approachable. There never was a 'deal', more like a slap-in-the-face offer.
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number_22
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It's not that I'm naive or anything, but it really starts to piss me off how people hoard stuff or want to make the big money out of it especially now that you could t.r.a.d.e bootlegs in a matter of seconds over the internet. I know that these people probably spent some considerable time and money to get their hands on this stuff, but still sharing something with other likeminded people is such a good feeling. I really don't know....
About the Dallas Late Show, I don't think there is a recording of that show, at least there is absolutely no evidence of its existence.
I somehow doubt they played ROTS in New Orleans.
About the Dallas Late Show, I don't think there is a recording of that show, at least there is absolutely no evidence of its existence.
I somehow doubt they played ROTS in New Orleans.
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jim4371
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It's not that all of the people with tapes want too much money, it's that The Doors don't want to give them any.
They talk about these royalty offers like they're giving a fair shake to all parties, but if that were the case, don't you think they'd have succeeding in buying more tapes that way than... uhh... none?
They talk about these royalty offers like they're giving a fair shake to all parties, but if that were the case, don't you think they'd have succeeding in buying more tapes that way than... uhh... none?
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wha happened
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once again #22, let me quote you in saying, you really don't know. It's much more complicated than you think and it's been covered, debated to death. People on each side of the fence have strong opinions and won't budge. People without rarities demand the 'goods', people with know what the game is all about (and 99% of the time it's not about money).
Now about a Dallas late show, there most definitely is a tape. Trust me. You'd be amazed what's out there lurking. I get a kick out the people or archivists that say well there is no proof something exists, or no one contacted the Doors so it's a myth. Sorry to say, but that's pure ignorance. Why do YOU doubt Riders was played in N-O? The golden rule is 'never name names', but if you knew who the info about Riders being played comes from, maybe you wouldn't second guess.
Now about a Dallas late show, there most definitely is a tape. Trust me. You'd be amazed what's out there lurking. I get a kick out the people or archivists that say well there is no proof something exists, or no one contacted the Doors so it's a myth. Sorry to say, but that's pure ignorance. Why do YOU doubt Riders was played in N-O? The golden rule is 'never name names', but if you knew who the info about Riders being played comes from, maybe you wouldn't second guess.
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number_22
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I never said that what the Doors management says is true. I just have my own opinion. As long as there is no evidence, it does not exist. It's the same with the holy grail, some people believe it does exist, some don't, but nobody has anything to prove its existence. Or can you supply any proof that these tapes exist ?
As far as I remember none of The Doors were conclusive if Riders was ever played live, neither is Vince and I trust him. So as far as my opinion goes, Riders was never played live.
Should I be proven wrong I'm happy to admit that I was wrong and I apologize to you.
As far as I remember none of The Doors were conclusive if Riders was ever played live, neither is Vince and I trust him. So as far as my opinion goes, Riders was never played live.
Should I be proven wrong I'm happy to admit that I was wrong and I apologize to you.
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wha happened
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Again, no evidence to YOU. I don't know how else to explain this, but Riders WAS played at the Dallas late show, it's plain as day on the recording. There were a few songs that were played throughout the years and still remain uncirculating. This started to happen over at the LL, we had some good discussions about what was out there but remain unheard, then the powers that be came along and squashed it with their, if we don't have it it doesn't exist crapola. You'd be absolutely blown away at what is out there, both audio and on film. But hey, it's your opinion. 8)
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Crown Royal
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Regardless of what you think, there's more uncirculating than there is circulating.number_22 wrote:Ok, then please send me a copy of that recording and I'm all with you on that matter.
If a person who just came off the banana boat was boasting about a recording i would be suspicious but if it's from someone who's reliable and in the know, you should believe it. Obviously he has a reason to be so sure it exists.
Heh, you probably believe The Doors actually have a Paul Rothchild recorded Matrix as well just because the manager said so.
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wha happened
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Ignorance is bliss. So just keep believing the only things that exist are what's circulating. That's one less hounding me for copies.
p.s. didn't you post asking what tape you had, which ended up being a Boston '70 show? If I were you, I'd worry about getting the circulating shows and being familiar with those before playing with the big dogs.
p.s. didn't you post asking what tape you had, which ended up being a Boston '70 show? If I were you, I'd worry about getting the circulating shows and being familiar with those before playing with the big dogs.
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number_22
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I asked because I got an unlabeled bootleg in very bad quality, so I wasn't sure as to what it was, I already had all the Boston shows though.
I also have a life besides the Doors, so I'm not as keen as to learn setlists by heart.
Your comments are far more ignorant than mine, if I might add this. I know there are shows out there which I'm not aware of, but I don't build my believes on assumptions.
Heck, how can you be so sure about there being a Riders live version, if not even Ray, Robbie or Vince are sure ? One possible answer is, that you all must have that ominous live version, but up until now none of you could add any proof to that, or the second posibility is, that you have heard of a recording that exists. Well, I recently heard that the earth was flat...
So again, if you have it, proof it.
I also have a life besides the Doors, so I'm not as keen as to learn setlists by heart.
Your comments are far more ignorant than mine, if I might add this. I know there are shows out there which I'm not aware of, but I don't build my believes on assumptions.
Heck, how can you be so sure about there being a Riders live version, if not even Ray, Robbie or Vince are sure ? One possible answer is, that you all must have that ominous live version, but up until now none of you could add any proof to that, or the second posibility is, that you have heard of a recording that exists. Well, I recently heard that the earth was flat...
So again, if you have it, proof it.
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The Freedom Man
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Nr22, I have to agree with Bluecow2 in this matter.
There's absolutely no point in asking for proof or asking names of people who have certain recordings.
Even if Bluecow2 knows names or heard stuff, you are not gonna find that out here.It just doesn't work like that.This game is too high for most of us.
I personally like this game, even though it is very frustrating, I've passed that point.Also you have to "earn" your place in this game.Even I can't tell stuff on my own Forum, cause it could damage other people.You just have to respect that, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Just recently I got something that I was looking (waiting) for, for manny years.It was a thrill to see/hear it.Then you watch/listen to it a few times, put it with the rest of my Doors collection and just enjoy that I have it.When you have one thing, you always think,OK, I have this now, what else is out there.If the Game wasn't played like it is now, collection The Doors wouldn't be so thrilling anymore, even though it is damn frustrating.
Keywords are Waiting waiting waiting- build up a small network and sometimes you'll get a reward for the respect one can get for this, but don't mess it up, 1 mistake and yer out!
The End, my friend, believe me, We want to hear Riders just as much as you do.
There's absolutely no point in asking for proof or asking names of people who have certain recordings.
Even if Bluecow2 knows names or heard stuff, you are not gonna find that out here.It just doesn't work like that.This game is too high for most of us.
I personally like this game, even though it is very frustrating, I've passed that point.Also you have to "earn" your place in this game.Even I can't tell stuff on my own Forum, cause it could damage other people.You just have to respect that, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Just recently I got something that I was looking (waiting) for, for manny years.It was a thrill to see/hear it.Then you watch/listen to it a few times, put it with the rest of my Doors collection and just enjoy that I have it.When you have one thing, you always think,OK, I have this now, what else is out there.If the Game wasn't played like it is now, collection The Doors wouldn't be so thrilling anymore, even though it is damn frustrating.
Keywords are Waiting waiting waiting- build up a small network and sometimes you'll get a reward for the respect one can get for this, but don't mess it up, 1 mistake and yer out!
The End, my friend, believe me, We want to hear Riders just as much as you do.
Can any Hell Be More Horrible Than Now In Real?
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number_22
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I think you didn't get my point. I really don't care if anybody has this or that super rare recording, neither do I care for their names.
The only reason why I opened this topic is because I wanna know if Riders was ever played live or if it wasn't. Vince answered that he could not remember it, Ray wasn't sure, Robbie said no. These people were all on stage at the concerts were Riders could have been played. wha_happened answered he knows a friend who was at both shows and says it was played at both. So there's no agreement from what people remember.
I just don't want to get my hopes up for anything and what would it help me if some silly hoarder sits on a pile of super rare recordings ? Nothing really.
So let's wait and see what happens...
The only reason why I opened this topic is because I wanna know if Riders was ever played live or if it wasn't. Vince answered that he could not remember it, Ray wasn't sure, Robbie said no. These people were all on stage at the concerts were Riders could have been played. wha_happened answered he knows a friend who was at both shows and says it was played at both. So there's no agreement from what people remember.
I just don't want to get my hopes up for anything and what would it help me if some silly hoarder sits on a pile of super rare recordings ? Nothing really.
So let's wait and see what happens...
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The Freedom Man
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jim4371
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John said yes, what, you don't like him or something?number_22 wrote:Vince answered that he could not remember it, Ray wasn't sure, Robbie said no.
He also mentioned that Vince told him it was a great new song.
Unless he made said conversation up, it would've HAD to have been played at Dallas Late, I don't think anybody was complimenting anybody after New Orleans.
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Crown Royal
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doorman
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Well,is it possible to discuss what exists but doesn't circulate on this board?wha happened wrote:Again, no evidence to YOU. I don't know how else to explain this, but Riders WAS played at the Dallas late show, it's plain as day on the recording. There were a few songs that were played throughout the years and still remain uncirculating. This started to happen over at the LL, we had some good discussions about what was out there but remain unheard, then the powers that be came along and squashed it with their, if we don't have it it doesn't exist crapola. You'd be absolutely blown away at what is out there, both audio and on film. But hey, it's your opinion. 8)
I mean,no-one expects names and phone numbers etc,it would be good if someone said "yes that exists,I have seen it,I can't share it at this point but it actually does exist for a fact",i'm sure a recording exists from Dallas late(i'm not interested myself,hell i'm not even interested in the circulating early set),why does it have to be a secret?
p.s,just got hold of Hendrix complete footage from Atlanta pop fest 1970
cheers..
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vince
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Swapping
Really to #22:
People who have recordings of the group, as I wonce did, have gained them over time and with careful negotiations, respect and integrity.
There is not doubt that oyu, and others, sincerely want many different venues but to get them is not necessarily just a cavalier - Just send me a copy.
I am not a collector, still, doesn't that seem a bit abrupt?
How about - PM me and talk to me about what might be out there???
More Genteel I think - Try it.
People who have recordings of the group, as I wonce did, have gained them over time and with careful negotiations, respect and integrity.
There is not doubt that oyu, and others, sincerely want many different venues but to get them is not necessarily just a cavalier - Just send me a copy.
I am not a collector, still, doesn't that seem a bit abrupt?
How about - PM me and talk to me about what might be out there???
More Genteel I think - Try it.
Vince
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number_22
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I respect all the collectors and the time and money they invested, however, I do believe that art is something to be shared with other people, so that everybody can enjoy it, at least that is how I handle my "art collections".
However, as I own many Doors bootlegs myself, I'm really just interested in that one song, as I have heard most of the material I'm interested in by now, but that one song I crave to hear (if it has been played, of course).
I'm open for discussion if anyone can offer me Riders On The Storm in a live version.
However, as I own many Doors bootlegs myself, I'm really just interested in that one song, as I have heard most of the material I'm interested in by now, but that one song I crave to hear (if it has been played, of course).
I'm open for discussion if anyone can offer me Riders On The Storm in a live version.