Friedrich Nietzsche

[Stuart]

Hi Vince, In the conversations you had with Jim, did he ever discuss Friedrich Nietzsche with you?.

Just bought a book of his notes "The Will To Power" On Friday!

[vince]

I had not, and have not read any book by F.N. nor to I plan to. There are many of these books on the market. I don't have the time to read them all and they are usually the basis for self help programs.

Jim did make an attempt to discuss such ideas and I kept them to my own feelings and experiences. There is enough in life to learn from without having to go to the books

Trust me, it was interesting and enlightening to discuss many topics with Jim without trying to debate what some long dead guy meant when he said this or that. the truth is, only he knew the exact meaning of his words. Today we ponder the meaning of some of Jim's writings. Same thing. If it does not leap of the page as obvious to all readers then there is little chance that the average reader will undertand what was meant.

[JLizard]

I like the Doors since I was like five and I heard Touch Me and I thought it was God. Then in college I read that Nietzsche was Jim Morrison's favorite writer. This confirmed to me that JDM would forever be a super elite artist in my book.
Back when JDM was reading Nietzshe, it was still taboo. Reading him instantly stigmatized you as a fascist, just as fast as you were labeled a "commie" if you're ideas were a little more socialist than the rest. Obviously this radical writer meant a lot to JDM. Discussion on what N meant to JDM is essential to keeping Jim's legacy alive. Writing off N's relationship with Jim as undecipherable is the trademark of a low-brow. Let's get some of the bright minds attacking this subject right away!

[vince]

Well now, Anything that you, or anyone else says about how N influenced Jim is pure speculation. Jim is dead. He did not, as far as I know, put into words what influence any writer or philosophy had on him to the extend that it modified his behavior.

To say that my thoughts on N and Jim is sad is a bit presumptuous, is it not? It seems strange that we all have to go to University and read banned books to understand Jim is somewhat extreme.

Jim was a person whose life has been made pretty public. His family has been dragged into it.. Now we have to start reading every book that Jom though well of to understanding Jim.

HHow about this. Listen to the Music of the Doors. - I mean the real music, not the blues transition material, the songs that Jim and Robbie wrote. Listen to the music behind the singer. Let that song and word create images for you. Enjoy it.

What is it that we have to pry into every crack and cranny of Jim's life to enjoy his music. Do you study Mozart, Schubert or Franck to listen to their writings?

Suddenly to enjoy music we have to read every book that might have been influential to Jim.

For your information, anything that was controversial was interesting to Jim. He was controversial. His life was controversial. His writings are often controversial. He lived for the controversial. N was simply a means to an end.

How about you finding you understanding of Jim in your way and recognize that I worked with him and know him one hell of a lot better than you do with all your books. One thing I do not need is Nitchse to understand Jim. I need Jim to understand Jim and he is not here now. What I have now will have to do. I readily admit that there are others far closer to him that I ever was. Jim does not live in anyone's books. He lives in my memory, my life, my experiences.

Best you put forth your qualifications to judge who is and is not "Low Brow". They better be good. Someone who is far your better may make the same judgement of you.

Keep Christmas in your own fashion and leave me to mine.

[JLizard]

Point well taken Vince. It's just N's writings meant a lot to me, and when I found out he was one of Jim's favorite writers I thought understanding Jim in his light as a Nietzschean would be the most interesting way to see him. But as you bring up, Jim was just as much about his family and friends as he was into literature. And he was into a lot more writers than N, and yeah he had to answer to his forefathers in Classical music before he could go to sleep. Specially Beethoven.

[vince]

How true it is that we get ideas from books. But in the end it is how we apply the ideas to life that really counts. I watched a snippet of a Morrison interview. He was asked what he though his music meant. The answer was incredibly evasive and when he completed his reply you knew little more than when he began.

He was deliberately obscure which in a way was clever - you never knew what he was really thinking. That gave him the advantage in every conversation.

We are a product of our environment. Family friends and school experiences. After that we can pretty much think for ourselves. We are really "Molded" by the time we are 10 or so and Jim was not reading much at that age that would produce any great influence.

I think the greatest force operating on Jim was his parent.

Good thoughts

[sullen and aborted]

Everyone is allowed to have an opinion on popular music and it is inevitable that differences of opinion will arise. From your writings, one can see that you didn't regard the Morrison Hotel and La Woman albums as much as you did the first album and Strange days, and that is opinion and personal taste. Do you think it was possible that "Doors Music Fatigue" could have occurred in your case from being around their rehearsals as frequently as you were and that a typical fan hearing finished product for the first time would be more excited about it than someone in your position who could have gotten tired of it during the development phase? Do you have any observations on Paul Rothschild's lack of interest in working on the LA Woman record as well. ?

[vince]

Hello Strongbow:

There is a great difference in the style of music between the first three albums and the last two. It is these differences that I do not like.

The Doors started out with a most unique style. It was this style that made everyone in that time take notice and made the group so popular. Part of the style was the strange meanings of Morrisons words, his physical behavior on stage and, of course the Voice. I am not saying that he was the best singer on the market but his voice and the music went together in a special way.

It was not Morrison or any other individual that made that group so special. It was the way the four of them worked together to produce words and music that simply reached out and made you pay attention. Especially music that was arranged and played in a "Classic Style"

In the latter days, the style changed to accommodate Rays favorite music - Chicago Blues. Blues music has a limited audience at best. It is a very plain, very human and direct music. It speaks of life and experiences. Blues is a slang word meaning depression, sadness, unhappy feeling as a result of some incident or emotion.

I can agree with you that werein the music and words may be brilliant. I do NOT like Blues Music - I do not care who writes, plays or sings it.
That should make it simple enough for anyone to understand.

Now let's clarify my opinion of the last two albums. The music on them ranged from the good, but only good, to the positively boring, - such as - My wild love (?) went riding.... If you ask me specifically whether I like the Albums - would I buy them today, I would immediately say, "No!".
If you asked me if there was any piece on either of the last two albums that I liked, I would have to say, "Yes". There is a difference between liking the entire album and specific pieces contained therein.

I have severl CD's and tapes of organ music. When I transfer these to a storage file I do not copy the entire disc unless every piece is to my liking. For instance, I will not play any piece, without even hearing it, written by Olivier Messian - When transferring music to my computer, I omit any track containing such garbage.

The Doors music is, and should be, no different. Some is absolutely outstanding, Some, unfortunately, is mundane.

If I was suffering from "Fatigue" would it be logical that this condition would apply generically to all Doors music - especially that of the first 3 or 4 albums which I certainly was exposed to the most, before and during my time with the group. Not so. I still like the original Doors style music.

Why did Rothschild separate himself from LA Woman. It is told that he said something to the effect that - the music they had prepared was not up to their standard. When they had something of interest to let him know. He walked out of the studie.

Now if the very highly respect Mr. Rothschild gave that opinion of the material prepared for LA Woman, is my assesment, made independantly, invalid?

If you like all the music on the last two albums, listen to them and be happy. I do not. I don't like peppermint ice cream or marischino cherries either. I doubt very much that you could tolerate much more than the first minute of Beethoven's 5th, Rachmaninov's First Piano, or Francks Grand Piece Symphonic. You might like the Jig Fugue, though. It is pretty simple and quite obvious in the beat and melody.

I think Ihave a right to the music I choose to listen to and most certainly the right to voice my opinion of what I like and what I do not.

Think carefully, Why would anyone who was brought up on and trained in the performance of Classic Organ music, with minor in symphonic concertos, and is, himself, a master organ builder, want to listen to any rock music? The gap between the two is so wide as to be nearly incomparable.

Yet, the Doors called me from my Organ Building occupation. It was The Doors and Strange Days that had the power to do this. LA Woman and Morrison Hotel closed one period of my life and opened the doors to the path that led me to return to my original calling.

If there was not a difference in taste, Baskin Robbins would not exist.